phoenixvoice
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Ok. A friend sent a article referencing a study that states that unvaccinated, covid survivors are 2.53 times more likely to get disinfected with covid than covid vaccinated. I looked at the study, and am hoping that someone here with more experience than I can parse the study.
“I’m seeing everybody around me get sick and dying. Let me just go ahead and get vaccinated.’”
Except…that isn’t what I’m seeing at all. In 18 months I’m aware of two deaths — a friend of my mother’s and my middle school drama teacher. My mother’s friend was a widow, missing her husband and resigned to die. I hadn’t seen my former drama teacher in decades, and am unfamiliar with any comorbidities that he may have had…but he was of advanced age. These things happen. I’m usually aware of a few older folks who pass away each year.
My attorney and my partner were sick day after day with Covid…but then they both recovered and were fine. For everyone else I know who had it (including myself) it was “like a flu,” except for my father who did not fall ill…and my kids who were exposed repeatedly but have no indication of ever being infected.
No, I am not seeing an uptick in sickness or death! (Stop gaslighting me, Fauci!!)
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Two years ago my partner and I met a couple who were living their dream — an off grid property where they could, with likeminded others, build their own home and grow their own food, living in harmony with nature. Yesterday we visited them. To our delight we discovered that we still had very much in common, and, interestingly enough, were of one mind when it came to Covid and the vaccines. We had not corresponded in 2 years…and yet had accessed similar information and arrived at the same conclusion.
They needed to purchase more water rights, found an appropriate seller, however, their neighbor runs a bed and breakfast and apparently wants to run them off of their land, and is creating a legal challenge to the purchase that is costing them all of their reserves and more. To find out what they are doing, who they are, and possibly help them out, follow this link: The Wild Cooperative
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Regarding ADE…I find myself wanting further data to corroborate that it is happening.
(1) there is sufficient data to determine that the vaccine does basically nothing to halt infection nor infectious ness
(2) there is sufficient data to determine that the Covid protection from the vaccine wanes as the months pass, and is very low after 6 months.
(3) there is preliminary evidence that vaccination *might* lead to ADE, however, since the oldest, sickest cohort were the first to be vaccinated, we know that the protection wanes over time, and the expression of ADE is very similar symptomatically to severe Covid, preliminary evidence is not jarring enough to present it to the vaccine “true believers.” I don’t think that vaccine true believers are going to be jolted until YOUNG vaccine recipients are dying at higher than normal rates from ADE. And, it also needs to be seen overwhelmingly that the unvaccinated would be (a) Covid-naive, not getting severely ill from Covid or (b) Covid survivors, not getting ill at all from Covid. And this needs to be so prevalent that the lived reality of the vaccinated “true believers” is a stark contrast to the “gas lighting” by the media, et al.(As far as #3, it appears that Democritus noticed these problems as well. There just isn’t enough data to convincingly state that ADE is occurring…)
It is quite depressing to think about. I was steeling myself for the time when my vaccinated friends would show signs of vaccine injury. That time is upon me. Only 1 out of 5 currently see the vaccines as the culprit. I am steeling myself for the time when there are deaths from ADE.
I realize that I am pattern seeking. I try to remain at least somewhat aware of what sort of evidence would be to the contrary. Just like I *wanted* to believe that my vaccinated friends were as safe as they felt once they were vaccinated…but now there is a preponderance of evidence that I was right and they were wrong. It saddens me. I didn’t want to be right.
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My 2 cents regarding the comments…more ingredients added to the pot, we have been stirred up and there is some froth. So, turn down the heat, we need to find a new equilibrium, a new homeostasis. This is jarring, can be upsetting, but this is what life is about: change. Living systems are not static, we are never going to be able to regress to an idyllic past.
My preference is to embrace Democritus and deflationista. To do so is consistent with my values. However, what I have learned from years of interacting with cherished family whose beliefs differ radically from my own, is that we focus on finding our commonalities and instead of trying to convince each other that “my way is RIGHT!.” This will reduce argument and help keep emotions to a manageable level in discussions. We can respectfully disagree.
I support D & D’s need to share and comment. However, share, rather than try to convince. If you run across an article that speaks to you, share it, and let us know why it speaks to you.
I also feel for the frustration felt in this crazy set of circumstances and the isolation that comes when friends are suddenly holding opinions that differ radically from our own, and the challenge of navigating this situation.
(This is my attempt to keep my comments to one per day. Now I’ve gotta work on striking camp.)
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I found out last night that my daughter’s school district has enacted a mask mandate in accordance with the CDC and in violation with recently enacted Arizona law. Parents are given the option to opt their child out of the mask mandate…but I cannot exercise that option as my co-parent is a CDC acolyte and we have joint legal — eh, you know the jargon.
Which authority is more powerful — the federal CDC or the Arizona State Legislature?
The MSM creates a facade of agreement among doctors and experts.
Reality:
Some doctors/experts agree with the facade
Some doctors/experts agree with the facade AND have conflicts of interest that suggest collusion with the facade
Some “experts” aren’t really experts, but are helping to create the facade, and for them taking on the role of “expert” is a part of their purpose
Some are just sycophants paid to create content to uphold the facade
Some doctors/experts disagree with the facade…they are finding themselves muzzled/censored/canceled no matter their credentials
Some disagree with the facade because they have negative experience with mainstream narratives and/or a “gut instinct” informs their disagreement.So, the task of the critical thinker is to field all of this and chart a course.
@ deflationista
Thanks for the info on cognitive biases…
The thing is, my bottom line is this: I survived Covid and am immune.
The mainstream narrative tells me I should get vaccinated but has provided me no data that would clearly indicate that this would provide a health benefit to me. Various medical studies strongly suggest that my immunity is broad-based and life-long. At the same time, we have data that suggests that the Covid vaccines are much more dangerous in the short term than any prior vaccine I’ve received and, quite frankly, not enough time has passed to gather sufficient data on mid- and long-term side effects of the vaccine.Nothing that you have shared challenges my understanding of my own natural immunity, nor the fact that there are a multitude of adverse reactions in VAERS, proportionately much larger than any prior mass vaccination campaign.
“Safe and effective” is a meaningless mantra without the data to back it up. The mid-term data is just starting to emerge; long-term data is non-existent.
I acknowledge that I have cognitive biases. That is why I take the time to parse these issues out, and get to the core issues. I recognize that I lack trust in the Establishment, and that lack of trust is what spurred me to look for the data behind their pronouncements and to base my actions (or inaction) on the data.
Democritus
Re Deseret news article“ This has brought new questions about whether natural infections are more protective against the delta variant than vaccinations — but the answer is not yet certain.”
Appeal to ignorance is a logical fallacy in which someone argues either for or against something because there is no contradicting evidence. In other words, it’s based on the mistaken assumption that a lack of evidence is evidence.
It is also known as argumentum ad ignorantiam (Latin for “argument from ignorance”) and is a type of informal fallacy.
Definition
As mentioned above, one falls victim to this fallacious line of reasoning when they assert that a claim must be true if it hasn’t been proven false, or false if it hasn’t been proven true.Ignorance, or the lack of opposing evidence, is the main premise for the argument, hence the name “appeal to ignorance”.
There are two logical forms for this argument, depending on if the argument is affirmative or negative. The affirmative claim asserts that a particular conclusion must be true since there is no evidence against it, and a negative one declares a conclusion false due to the same reason.
Notedly, the article fails to address the issue of Covid survivors having more durable immunity than vaccine recipients — instead, it sows doubt and then moves on.
I am very glad that Israel’s current Covid wave is less severe than the third wave. I find the data quoted to be insufficient. It would be significant to know, for those currently sick with breakthrough cases, and the subset hospitalized for breakthrough cases, *when* was the vaccination received? Is there a correlation between breakthrough cases and how long ago the vaccine was received? (I.e. is, perhaps, the vaccine effective at either preventing infection or preventing severe infection for the first 4 or 5 or 6 months, but wanes thereafter? Is there a correlation between poor health — comorbidities — and breakthrough infections, and/or Covid hospitalizations? Are people who survived Covid and were subsequently jabbed coming down with Covid? Is PCR testing being used — if so, at what cycle counts? Is there correlation between time that has transpired since vaccination and breakthrough and or hospitalization?)
Because of the data insufficiencies and general lack of depth to the article, I get the feeling that this article is designed to “mop up” spillover concerns that may arise in the flock when/if they encounter data about breakthrough infections. It appears designed to soothe their fears with data that supports the Trusted Media Initiative, and intentionally does not share any data that might cause more concerns to arise. Personally, when I read it, my mind starts spinning questions about the data not included and I find it odd that others (including the author) do not have similar questions. But that is what happens when your thinking has been confined to a box, and you have been deluded into believing that box is all that there is to see. Plato and the shadows in the cave.
(I know about such boxes. I was raised in one. My marriage was another. When life did not function according to the rules of the box I had to look outside of the box in order to survive with my sanity intact.)
Re: RT Project Fear article..
I can tell when authors have been so indoctrinated by the mainstream narratives that they are failing to see outside of the mainstream narrative box. In this case, it is because the author sees “the unvaccinated” as figuring they have made it thus far, going to continue…not realizing that for a sizable subset of the unvaccinated they cannot be induced into fear of Covid BECAUSE THEY ARE ALREADY IMMUNE, Covid survivors. See, the super-fearful Covid survivors already took the jab. I know of one Covid survivor living in the NYC area who got jabbed despite his immunity, despite knowing the vaccines were problematic because he succumbed to the social pressures and the vaccine passport inconvenience. There are the Covid survivors who go off of instinct and ignore everything else — they figure I survived, I’m immune and look no deeper. And there are Covid survivors like me who feel the need to research the vaccine risks and the particulars of natural immunity. (Either way — the scare tactics don’t work. It’s like trying to get me to be afraid of the dark when I have a flashlight at hand and plenty of batteries.)
At least this author is helping create the social space for the vaccine decliners to exist in society.
But sometimes I just wish I could shake people out of the mass psychosis trance, help the to understand that Covid is no significant threat, treatment/prophylaxis makes it even less of one, and the path to freedom is infection and survival — this is the path that Nature/God has given us. Covid vaccination is a form of slavery.It was three, now it is five.
Five is the number of clients that I personally know that are now suffering the effects of health problems likely brought on by a Covid vaccine.
1) 80+ year old woman who had a “mini-stroke” and sudden onset of high blood pressure likely caused by blood cloths.
2) about 70 year old woman with myocarditis.
3) another woman around 65+ who was recently diagnosed with Alzheimers
4) woman in her mid-fifties with controlled diabetes who just lost sight in one eye. She has a blood clot in her carotid artery and a mass in her head that seems to be pressing on her optic nerve.
5) man in his early 60s whose legs ballooned up a few days ago and it was discovered that he has blood clots in his legs.
Three of these are people I have known over a decade as clients for my business. It makes me sick and breaks my heart. (I was kicking a tree in frustration a few minutes ago. My apologies to the tree, but it is an aged, strong tree and took it stoically.) Now there are three clients that I have urged to not get a booster for the covid vaccine unless they “first consult with the doctor treating you for the blood clots.”
This IS NOT normal.
I’ve watched several Academy of Ideas videos in the past 3 months. Doing so went a long ways towards helping me to understand what the hell is going on the world around me.
Hat tip to Germ for bringing my attention to this one.
@ Deflationista
Thank you for your very long post.
I understand where you are coming from. I was raised Mormon, but when my very messed up marriage led me to realize the religion was bogus, I had to leave it and then tell my family…who saw me turning from the religion as a tragedy. I have spent 15 years learning how to communicate with people I love, but who have a collection of closely held beliefs that differ radically from my own.Whenever you enter the room of a group of people who have been “in community” and conversing about specific topics for a long time, you are going to find some clear consensuses and points of view that are, well, let’s say “unique” to that particular group.
The tendency for the person who shows up late (or, perhaps simply after being away for a while,) is to see these consensuses and make a quick judgment about these points of view and the people and how these views were arrived at. However, if the goal is to communicate, this mental shortcut is an impediment to authentic communication.
In your essay yesterday you throw out accusations which reveal your lack of understanding of those who have been using this forum extensively to analyze and understand the Covid nightmare that engulfs us all. You suggest that our minds have become subordinated to right-wing memes, that we are lapping up every bit of “anti-Vaxxer” propaganda, that we are not utilizing critical thinking skills…(implying that your position, by contrast, *is* using critical thinking skills. A rather large conceit.)
I recognize that there is a big “mainstream” narrative that suggests that those who don’t want the vaccine are far-right wackos, inveterate “anti-vaxxers” who deny all vaccines…but in my personal, lived experience, that is not the case.
So far, EVERY PERSON but ONE that I know in person (not thru TAE), either recently, or extended family, that has chosen not to take the vaccine has made that decision because they ALREADY SURVIVED A COVID INFECTION and have durable immunity. (P.S. they are all white.) I do not state that my natural immunity is durable just ‘cause someone here on TAE said so, but rather because I have read the medical studies published on the subject (and lay explanations of said studies.) Most of the studies I found thanks to TAE posters — which saved me a lot of time searching for them on my own — and Doc Robinson here at TAE has clarified my understanding of some of the fine points of immunity — all was information I could have found elsewhere, but TAE ends up being a short cut.
“Walking freely in society living on the immunity provided by others, kinda like the welfare leeches they like to complain about.” This assertion falls completely flat when faced with the many, many unvaccinated to Covid, post-Covid survivors, who have sterilizing immunity, who are contributing to “herd immunity” while the Covid-vaccinated are passing Covid around.
I’m pretty familiar with “anti-vax” views. My sister has held those views for a decade or more. We’ve had several in depth discussions…from those discussions I discovered that my sister had a broader and deeper understanding of human immunity than I did. My kids have received all of their typical childhood vaccinations, but I have realized that the current vaccine schedule seems more rapid than necessary, that it is wise to research a vaccine to understand the risks/benefits before getting jabbed, and that Big Pharma is reaping huge profits from vaccinations in general.
I also noticed that a lot of anti-vax hype is fear-mongering that tends to be large on theories and slim on facts. I have found this in many other subjects as well — including the “official” Covid narrative. Whenever I run across this type of hype an alert goes off in my mind, and I start looking for the most solid, fact based sources that I can find.
“That’s because Bill is attempting to depopulate the planet, so he and Fauci developed the virus, and the vaccine to cure it, so that they could not only kill some people right off, but then track the survivors through microchips floating in the covid vaccines. Never mind that both … carry a fucking cell phone everywhere they go and have been tracked by the NSA for like 20 years now.”
Hrm…well, there is some pretty good evidence that Bill + buddies would *like* to reduce the population. Is the Covid pandemic and/or the mass vaccination campaign a means to this end? IDK. I have not seen any “smoking gun” evidence. Just circumstantial evidence.
Is the Covid pandemic and/or the mass vaccination campaign designed to remove liberties, and make it easier for the population to be controlled? Well, “the proof is in the pudding” and since removing liberties and creating passes that govern human locomotion IS what is happening, it is pretty fair to say that these actions are either by Covid design or were planned and just waiting for the right disaster to enable them.
It seems that most of your essay is a rant. I’ve dropped a few rants here myself in the past year. Others rant as well. Rants are generally a means to vent emotion. I’m guessing that you are venting here at TAE as a proxy because there isn’t a safe way to vent directly at “Kristen and Karen.”
Myself, I lost my liberal religious community to Covid. They don’t want to meet in person until the vaccine makes everyone safe from Covid. (I have no idea how they are digesting the news that the vaccine doesn’t prevent/diminish passing Covid from person to person.). I’ve been publicly shamed as an anti-vaxxer for not being the only performer masked, the only Covid survivor in a sea of vaccinated folks. I tire of friends parroting the CDC line that I should get at least one vaccine dose…which would confer no social benefit. (Yes, I’m aware a single dose would boost my antibodies…but there is no evidence that I need such a boost.)
It’s a mad, mad world.
TAE is an island of respite for me. You are welcome to rest here as well…but don’t expect me to convert to your views…I don’t expect you to convert to mine.“ Postal Service was saddled with an impossibly leveraged pension plan capable of financially ruining it, fwiw”
Postal Service was suddenly required to pre-fund 75 years of future retirees medical benefits. They were given 10 years to do it.
https://about.usps.com/who-we-are/financials/annual-reports/fy2010/ar2010_4_002.htmMany suspect this plan was designed to bankrupt the postal service.
I always figured it was so the government in the future could tap those funds — I’m sure the federal government doesn’t actually intend for the future retirees to access those funds….
“The emergency use authorizations for the vaccines now administered in the U.S. were based on just two months of follow-up data — enough to be confident that the vaccines are safe, effective, and fit for use in response to a pressing need,“
Bullshit.
The problem the FDA is having with their messaging is that they lied.
Nope, never in a million years is 2 months of follow up data on a *new vaccine*; using a *new technology*, against a corona virus, a subset of viruses for which we’ve never before developed a successful vaccine, going to be enough time to determine the safety nor effectiveness of said vaccine.If the FDA were honest with their EUAs the messaging would have been thus:
“According to preliminary trials with two months of data, the vaccines appear to be largely safe for about 3 months in healthy people who have not had Covid. The vaccines appear to diminish symptoms for those infected, at least for the first couple of months after becoming “fully vaccinated.” Considering that some individuals may be in a high risk category, this preliminary data may be a compelling reason to get the vaccine. Please discuss whether the vaccine is right for you with your doctor.”If this had been the messaging up front, then no one would be wondering why full approval takes longer. Of course, half the US population wouldn’t now be fully vaccinated.
My brother stated this in an email family discussion of an article my father sent around. I thought it was brilliant and worth sharing here:
“ I don’t think discussions for change can be made when we use a pejorative to describe the opposition. ”Camping in beautiful Dolores. Last night at the communal dish washing sink got into a conversation with a couple with a mild southern accent. They are ranchers. Like my partner and myself, Covid already swept through their family, with no deaths, no “long Covid.” Their kids barely noticed it. They went ahead and treated themselves to one injection each of 1 cc ivermectin after a couple of days, which seemed to help. They spoke about ivermectin like it was a commonly used word, sliding off of the tongue. Because it is. See, they keep ivermectin on hand, injecting it into all of the calves each year. Oh, yeah, they said, comes in injections and in topical preparations. On the veterinary medicine label it says for parasites and corona viruses. But some people were giving themselves too high a dosage — (I don’t recall how much) — but the amount they would give to a 1500 pound bull. A neighbor of theirs, Covid swept through his family and hit their neighbor’s mother pretty hard. After 4 days she was starting to have trouble breathing. The neighbor put 1.5 ccs of injectable ivermectin in his mother’s orange juice. The next morning she felt so much better she said that she felt like she could return to work. (!)
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Re: The Squad sleeping on steps outside the Capitol
Well, it *is* nice to hear about them inconveniencing themselves a little for the values they profess to embody.
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Some of my hens believe that I am god. One comes for a back scratching whenever I go to get the eggs. But not all of them. A few won’t even walk out of the way when I enter the hen yard to refresh their water!
those darned kids
Participant
“what’s gonna happen if it turns out the cuban vaccines are the only ones that work?”*grin*
😀However, most of the US population would refuse the Cuban vaccine on principal because nothing valuable could come out of Cuba except cigars.
Dr D
“
Other than the specifics, lockdown, isolation, fear, the goal is, “Anything you want just to end this.” …But of course giving psycho power-people obedience doesn’t stop them, oh no. It ENCOURAGES them to do more, due to their own mental illness. I mean, duh.”Yup.
I remember the night that I “agreed” (lip service) with my ex’s messed up narrative for my actions to shut him up so that I could go to sleep. The marriage may not have officially ended for another nearly 3 years…but in a visceral way I knew that I could not live under those type of conditions indefinitely. And from then on I was taking my power back.It’s the same sort of situation.
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upstateNYer
“Btw, I’m still confused as to what QAnon actually is. Who are these people? How do they find each other? How many are there?”Good question. My entire family leans right, into the far right. I’ll ask them their opinions and get back to you in a day or so. They probably know a fair amount.
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We can gather our poetry into a book and sell it to help Raul fund TAE….
@ mr roboto
Thx for vid correlating the rise of variants with vax CRT locations and vax rollouts. I hadn’t noticed that correlation before. It is, however, a strong correlation.Just goes to show how a community of human minds is so much more than an individual human mind can ever be. 🙂
Re Noirette’s info @ yuri…
Maybe his great great grandfather was a snake oil salesman and he has simply modernized the family business? (The Rockefeller’s literally descended from a snake oil salesman, and look how they made out.)Re deflationista
“The point was that we should avoid potentially killing people with more unproven treatments because of some antivax narrative“Um…there is some HUGE irony in this statement.
So…the “unproven treatments” are the EUA Covid vaccines, right?
HCQ has gone through full FDA approval and we have years and years of data about this drug. It is considered safe and effective for treatment of malaria and rheumatoid arthritis.
Ivermectin has gone through full FDA approval and we have years and years of data about this drug. It is considered safe and effective for treatment of various parasites. The inventors received the Nobel prize in medicine in 2015 for this drug.
The Covid vaccines have not gone through full FDA approval, but have only received EUA, and are, by definition, experimental. Because they have not gone through the full FDA approval process, we have no data on mid-term and long term safety. The blow up in VAERS data suggest that the Covid vaccines are much less safe than the vaccines people are accustomed to receiving. The recent study in Massachusetts, (Cape Cod, if I remember right?), along with a lot of other recent data suggests that the vaccines neither prevent Covid infection nor transmission. Some fully vaccinated are still winding up in the hospital and dying from Covid.
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I really fail to see how prophylaxis or early treatment with HCQ or ivermectin, drugs with inveterate safety profiles, is harmful.
The EUA Covid vaccines are problematic. It is difficult to make a reasoned cost benefit analysis when we still have so little data on them. However, the VAERS data is very concerning…I always believed the first maxim of medicine was “do no harm” and we don’t have enough data to indicate that the vaccines are doing no harm.@ upstate ny-er
“And what do these stats say about the efficacy of the vaccination if only 50% of people in attendance were vaccinated?”Without knowing whether or not the unvaccinated have already had covid…it’s hard to say.
For anyone else interested in my ivermectin song. (Finding old stuff on TAE isn’t easy.).
😀
@ dr d
“ Personally, shouldn’t do this until you have a responsible cradle-to-grave system, like aluminum has. I’m not asking the world, it can be somewhat slack. But that would require doing less, meaning selling less, having less, less profit and less taxes, with longer product lifespans, the opposite of everything we stand for as we turn off analog TV and flip Nokias.”Exactly.
The way I see it, how much life improvement do we actually get from the brand new iPhone over the former iPhone? If Apple would quit pumping out updates to slow down old iPhones and if apps (for all devices/computers) were written to be backwards compliant — the way they used to be for Windows computers — we would solve a sizeable chunk of the problem. That and modular systems that are reparable. (Microsoft Office 2003 is still running today on my Windows 10 laptop, although I did buckle down and purchase a perpetual license of the new version a few months back when I landed a job helping someone learn how to use modern PowerPoint. I use Quickbooks 2004 on a virtual machine running Windows XP. Never could see the point of spending $200+ every 3 years to upgrade just so I could use “online services” that provide marginal benefit.)@ absolute galore
“
1. Is the narrative that fully 80% of the population is not really susceptible to the virus still around, or is that “false news” from “our side?” The only real justification I ever saw for this was the result of how many on the ship Diamond Princess came down with Covid.”I remember two studies mentioned on TAE that addressed this. One corroborated the 80%/20% narrative, the other was a lower percentage, don’t recall it as clearly, maybe around 60%/40%? Perhaps someone else here has the links handy…I have over a hundred bookmarks that I intend to archive the contents of…eventually. (Hope they are still there when I get to it.)
Re: Rare earth metals….green article
Of course. Because the wealthy environmentalists can’t tolerate a world where they don’t continue to have every current convenience and more, and where they don’t occupy the same privilege they currently enjoy or better.
I believe that a “green revolution” is possible — but to really do it, the globalists would have to completely give up on planned obsolescence. We cannot do it at our current level of technology and continue to create as much waste as we currently do. Our culture is incredibly wasteful — we extract all of these resources, adulterate them in complex ways, with no plans to recover the resource at the end of the cycle. The logic behind this system is stupefying.
The way we build homes is crazy. I visited Mesa Verde last week. Those people had limited wood resources up on top of the mesas. So the eventually built their homes out of stone, rather than out of sticks and mud. Guess which ruins are the most exciting to visit today? (Spoiler – it isn’t the foundations of the wood and mud homes. They also had a nasty habit of catching fire.). If a home is within or near a forest, wood construction makes sense. In the desert regions of Arizona…why are all the new homes made of wood when there is no forest for miles and miles?
It all comes back to our economic system and the stupefying choices made in its name.
I’m not suggesting that all we need to do is throw away less and build our homes from local resources (although those are some changes that need to happen.). I am suggesting that to solve the problem of environmental crisis we must have an entirely different framework of values that we use to solve our everyday needs – be they housing, communication, etc.. And the global parasitic class is an obstacle to creating the value framework that is required.I wonder whether there will be legal challenges to vaccine mandates based on pre-existing immunity. What is the legality of upholding a vaccine mandate when the unvaccinated person can show proof of prior infection followed up with positive antibody test results and/or memory T-cells to Covid? That isn’t a religious exemption, and it isn’t what is usually thought of for a medical exemption.
Self employment has its ups and downs. One fringe benefit: I have no employer who can demand that I be vaccinated or tested on my own dime.
@ deflationista
Wow. You’ve really fallen for the black and white thinking of the propaganda, haven’t you?
Hate to burst your bubble, but dividing the population into the (fully) vaccinated vs. the unvaccinated (everyone else) is a really inaccurate picture from an immunity perspective.I’m unvaccinated. I had Covid – positive PCR and classic symptoms. Covid, for me, my partner, my children, my parents, and my sister’s family is like “the big bad wolf” that wasn’t. My mother has severe asthma — a few puffs on her inhaler and she was fine. My father has some minor health issues, was 71 at the time — he had NO symptoms, (totally unfair – I was in bed and feverish!) but is proud of his antibodies to Covid. (My parents happily tell people their antibody counts to anyone who will listen and joke about whose antibody count is higher.)
Not to mention, children’s innate immune systems often shut Covid down speedily. (My children were exposed multiple times, never got sick during our quarantine, never had positive PCR.). And there is indication that up to 80% of the population had pre-existing cross-immunity. (Like my father.)
I don’t need masks, I don’t need any damned vakzine. Let me be.
So, you see, the refuseniks are simply not a homogenous crowd. They are not all relying on ivermectin. Many of us are fully immune — more immune than the hyped up vaccinated folks upset because the CDC is telling them to mask again.
@ Michael Reid
I remember when my ex was doing that he ordered some sort of fancy yeast that was supposed to get an initial fermentation around 20%.The house we stayed in (vrbo) for a week was in an old mining town. There was an old coal furnace in the basement, along with a couple buckets of coal.
Hm. In a barter situation ethanol *may* be more valuable than stout.
However, that is assuming that the 100% (or near) pure ethanol doesn’t have any additive to make it toxic to drink. (That is what is done with any ethanol sold that is not for consumption or medical use — that way it doesn’t fall under the liquor laws.) Pure ethanol has many uses — it can be both a fuel and an intoxicant (needs to be diluted!!!!). It can be used as a medicine in a pinch.
However, if the ethanol is stout…it is tastier.Hrm…”stout” will never be able to go through a generator. Has to go through a still first. That can get the ethanol into the 90%+ range if done well. To get it to 100% the rest of the water needs to be removed. Silica gel supposedly can be used for that. Never tried it out, but looked into the process years ago as a matter of curiosity.
Re dr d:
“
Does someone have an actual breakdown of unvaccinated? As I understand, there are conservatives, yes, but didn’t I read the real numbers were the young? And they got no traction in the black community? Both those later groups are statistically Democrats, although their reluctance may not add up to 50%”Good question.
In my immediate family my parents, my three siblings and their spouses all lean right. My partner and Intend to lean left.
So..
The only lefties are against Covid vaccination
Of the righties,
4 adults are against Covid vaccination
4 adults have been fully vaccinatedDoesn’t sound like left/right split.
Actually, the full split is 6 against — who all had covid
4 pro — two of which were exposed in their home to covid.My father has two full brothers, all three are married. All 6 lean right.
Half are vaccinated, half are not.Granted, this is an anecdotal breakdown of my own family, but it shows that the divide is *not* along the usual lines between left/right.
I had a chance to “put my money where my mouth is” this past week. A long-term client needed some computer help, had asked me to come onsite. On Wednesday I called her to adjust the timeframe for Thursday, and she told me that the retirement community where she lives had informed her that two days before she had conversed with a friend in the (outdoor) dog park who has now been diagnosed with Covid. (She didn’t know if the friend had been previously vaccinated.) She was now considered “exposed” — did I still want to come over on Thursday?
I hesitated for a split second — do I *really* bellieve in my naturally acquired immunity? Yes, I realized, I do. I assured her that it was no problem, I would still come over. When I arrived on Thursday she was getting her mask on — you don’t need to wear the mask, I told her, it isn’t necessary. She is hard of hearing, and I’ve noticed that masking with people who are hard of hearing renders communication nearly impossible. Again — do I truly believe in my immunity? Do I truly believe that masks are useless for Covid.Yes, I do. I trust my natural immunity over the CDC and any pharmaceutical company every day of the week.
Re TDK
“ PARSLEY, the People’s Association for Real, Sensible, Logical Examination of Yemergencies.”Nice one!
@ mr roboto
“
Meanwhile, I’m still unsubscribing from e-mails I get from “Team Blue” spammers. I suspect some of them may be disregarding those notifications from me.”Lol, me, too. Although I’m not getting as many as I used to. And the snail mail versions go through the paper shredder with the rest of the non-plastic junk mail to line my hens’ nest boxes.
@ kimo
Your post on CRT gave me such a good laugh. :D. Thx.@ v Arnold…love that you brought up Voltaire
So enjoyed reading Candide in college. Enjoyed it so much that I then wrote a paper for my lit class comparing the book of Candide to Sondheim’s musical of the same name, contrasting it with the original play and subsequent opera of The Marriage of Figaro.
Lyrics to last song in Sondheim’s musical version of Candide:
CANDIDE
You’ve been a fool
And so have I,
But come and be my wife.
And let us try,
Before we die,
To make some sense of life.
We’re neither pure, nor wise, nor good
We’ll do the best we know.
We’ll build our house and chop our wood
And make our garden grow…
And make our garden grow.
CUNEGONDE
I thought the world
Was sugar cake
For so our master said.
But, now I’ll teach
My hands to bake
Our loaf of daily bread.
CANDIDE AND CUNEGONDE
We’re neither pure, nor wise, nor good
We’ll do the best we know.
We’ll build our house and chop our wood
And make our garden grow…
And make our garden grow.
(ensemble enters in gardening gear and a cow walks on)
CANDIDE, CUNEGONDE, MAXIMILLIAN, PAQUETTE, OLD LADY, DR. PANGLOSS
Let dreamers dream
What worlds they please
Those Edens can’t be found.
The sweetest flowers,
The fairest trees
Are grown in solid ground.
ENSEMBLE (a cappella)
We’re neither pure, nor wise, nor good
We’ll do the best we know.
We’ll build our house and chop our wood
And make our garden grow.
And make our garden grow!
(The cow dies)
VOLTAIRE
Ah, me! The pox!Re
A kullervo
“ mass education = massive irresponsibility”I wonder how much of mass education is “mass indoctrination.”
My daughter was recognized as “highly gifted” in 1st grade. By the middle of 2nd grade she was attending the school district’s Gifted Learning Center. There she received an amazing education through 6th grade, where she was invited to read anything she wanted, to express herself creatively, critical thinking skills were nurtured, she did a science project of her choosing every year (except 6th, due to Covid,) she was involved collaboratively with other students on group projects, had overnight field trips — in short, it was exceptional. (This was all through the local school district.)It was very different for her brothers. One has various psychological diagnoses and was in programs designed to help him function in school. The second had a crappy, run of the mill, public education. The difference was stark. (Of course, *I* encouraged my kids to really think, and am pleased with the result, even in the son who had the crappy elementary education.). My daughter has spent the free time from the pandemic reading, studying the writing of her favorite authors (she is considering a career in writing,) and working on her drawing, with dramatic results. She is a self-starter who chooses her own course of study, pursues self-education in those areas, and it shows — BTW, she is 13.
I believe that the education received thus far by my daughter is the broad based education that should be the goal for ALL children, not just those identified as “gifted” and (as my domestic partner and I suppose) not just reserved for the children of the parasitic class (aka elites) and those most likely to be right below them as their chosen advisors, tasked with carrying out their wishes.
But, of course, then we would have too many people (like the young man speaking to the San Diego County Board of Supervisors) who can actually think and understand documents (such as numbers and statistics and the Constitution, et al.)
Lyrics:
A Tribute to IvermectinChorus:
Ivermectin
Ivermectin
Ivermectin is a wonderful medicine,
IvermectinIsolated from the soil of Japan
The avermectin bacterium
Dispatched those worms, every one
For our pets since 1981Chorus
River blindness in the sub-Sahara
Elders blind, the children led them around
Ivermectin cured them, and aha!
Approved for humans since ‘87Chorus
The world’s first endectocide
Zapping parasites left and right
Safe in mammals of every stripe
Our wonder drug, and let’s recite:Ivermectin
Ivermectin (1/2 chorus)Bridge:
Its inventors, Campbell and Omura
Blessed by millions for their wonder drug by the Nobel Prize for medicine in 2015
For
1/2 chorus
“Greatest beneficial impact on the health and well being of humanity” are penicillin, aspirin, andChorus
When Covid raged through India
People dying, needing canned oxygen
Ivermectin given to them all
The Covid wave crushed with medicineCalled
1/2 Chorus
Last 1/2 Bridge
Chorus + tagRe absolute galore:
“It’s sad that this is being conflated with “cancel culture.” Native Americans never referred to themselves as Indians or Redskins. The sports teams names have zero to to with Native American history, they are names long considered demeaning used by mega wealthy entertainment entities (ie, modern sports teams).”Not so sure about native Americans not identifying with moniker “redskins.” Drove through Navajo reservation land last week, and passed a Navajo high school. The mascot was “the redskins.”
Denninger touched on something that I am curious about — I’ve seen hints about getting jabbed after naturally acquired immunity may/does change the naturally occurring immunity so that it is less robust. The Denninger article above references an unnamed study.
Anyone know the study being referenced?
Or, how OAS is a factor in this?
(OAS is how pre-existing immunity calls up inefficient antibodies to current [mutated] virus…so how is a Covid jab causing OAS in naturally immune folks…is it undoing OAS and creating its own flavor of OAS?)
And, if OAS is a thing, doesn’t that mean that boosters may be ineffective?Um…great graphic on who can dine. Definitely not made for large families. My sister, her husband, and five kids (all currently under age of 12) would not be able to dine in any restaurants. Covid went through their household in September of last year so they are all naturally immune. That policy is insane.
TAE has given me several courses of “food for thought” the past week. I haven’t had time to really take it all in.
I’m both surprised and not surprised.
Not surprised: at the revelations of totalitarian behavior of the governments of various countries, especially US government. Between Wikileaks and Edward Snowden I realized years ago what governments were capable of and what direction they were headed in. How far they have gone currently — that is heavy and saddening, but is not a surprise.
Surprised: at the brazenness and openness of the totalitarian behavior of world governments. It boggles my mind how it is that so many, many people that I know are seemingly oblivious to overt totalitarian efforts of the US government.It is going to take some time to integrate all of this. Tomorrow I head out on vacation with my kids, partner, parents, and dog. (Sorry, kitties, you and the hens and the parakeets and the fish stay home.) Long drives are very good for integrative thoughts. I’ve also downloaded an assortment of music theory videos to sharpen my mind.
Phoenix’s summer weather is very normal this year — highs usually above 110 degrees, with relatively frequent summer thunderstorms to give us relief from the heat — the blessing of the summer monsoon season. Very appreciated, since last year there was no monsoon rain.
One decision has gelled already from what I’ve learned through TAE this week — I need to set up a private chat server, post haste. I’ve been planning to do this for a few years. It looks like it can be done with end-to-end encryption and on a Linux server. I need to know that messages between myself and partner aren’t being spied on. Not that we have so much to hide — but we don’t agree with the mainstream, and it is clear that lack of mainstream thinking is becoming a danger. Time to stop advertising our discussions and shared links to TPTB.
