Doc Robinson
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Doc Robinson
Participant• Vaccine Euphoria
It’s more like vaccine mania.• Greece To Accept All Vaccines For Entry Into The Country
I think this could actually be a good thing, since the Sinovac vaccine, a traditional type of vaccine that is much safer than the mRNA and adenovirus vector vaccines, would otherwise not be allowed. The adverse reactions to it are mainly temporary pain at the injection site. More serious reactions, such as fever, are noticeably lower, and severe reactions seem virtually nonexistent.
The European and American regulators are not permitting the use of the Sinovac vaccine, even though the WHO authorized it for emergency use. Based on the data I’ve seen, I’m convinced that it’s the most rational vaccine available for Covid. If my children and I absolutely needed to get a Covid vaccination, I’d try to find a way for us to get the Sinovac vaccine.
The closest country to Greece which offers the Sinovac vaccine is Turkey.
Americans can get the Sinovac vaccine in Mexico.Doc Robinson
ParticipantDarkMatter: “Does anyone know if the entire virus can cross the blood brain barrier or if only the disconnected spike protein from ‘vaccination’ can do so?”
For the virus, “maybe,” but I found little evidence which shows that the Covid-19 virus itself actually crosses the blood-brain barrier.
For the spike protein, it’s not just theoretical, for example: “The S1 protein of SARS-CoV-2 crosses the blood–brain barrier in mice.” [Nature journal]
Astrocytes are cells [in the brain] that are in close contact with the blood-brain barrier… If the virus were somehow to breach the barrier, astrocytes — if they were vulnerable to infection — would be among its most easily reached targets… Once the astrocytes are infected, they could potentially be used as a steppingstone for the virus to reach more vulnerable neurons…
A recent report in JAMA Psychiatry noted that SARS-CoV-2 viral particles have been found in brain vascular endothelium — the organ that makes up the blood-brain barrier — but not in neurons or astrocytes…
Even if brain cells are vulnerable to infection, how exactly could the virus cross the blood-brain barrier? “The main studies have shown that we don’t think there is a lot of penetration of the virus itself in the brain except in specific places,” said Boldrini, lead author of the JAMA Psychiatry paper. Those places include the area postrema in the brainstem, which lies outside the blood-brain barrier because its job is to detect toxins and trigger vomiting in response.
The S1 protein of SARS-CoV-2 crosses the blood–brain barrier in mice
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41593-020-00771-8Regarding the mRNA vaccines causing spike proteins which cross the blood-brain barrier (BBB), this pro-vaccine article points out some of the risks.
The mRNA vaccine is injected intramuscularly through the arm. This method is preferred because large muscle cells have high vascularity, so the injected biomaterial can easily reach the systemic bloodstream and lymphatic system.
LNPs [lipid nanopaticles] fuse with and enter mammalian cells easily. As mentioned, the Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna mRNA vaccines use LNPs to encapsulate the mRNA genetic material for more efficient cell delivery.
Thus, the combined intramuscular injection and LNP technology would enable the mRNA vaccine to reach a broad range of cell types. The mRNA might even reach delicate cells or places that we don’t want them to, such as neurons in the brain or spinal cord.
In fact, LNPs are often used to overcome the problem of the BBB blocking medical drugs from entering the brain. Given that the BBB and blood-spinal cord barrier are lipid-soluble, the LNP-encapsulated mRNA vaccine might be able to enter the brain and spinal cord.
As a result, brain cells that express the spike protein might be marked as foreign by the immune system. For example, cytotoxic T-cells, which kill virus-infected and cancerous cells, might see the spike protein-expressing brain cells as a threat. Unlike muscle cells and many other cell types, neurons in the brain rarely regenerate.
Jacob Wes Ulm, MD, Ph.D., a geneticist, explained this concern in detail in a letter to the British Medical Journal, as well as in a public comment to an article about mRNA vaccines on January 2021..
Doc Robinson
ParticipantThe Covid narrative is being presented, and adhered to, as if it’s the consensus of esteemed experts, but it’s clearly not. One example from the FDA advisory committee meeting yesterday (discussing the vaccination of children):
Cody Meissner, professor of pediatrics at Tufts University School of Medicine, said kids need a safe and effective Covid shot — but argued against authorizing one for emergency use in anyone under 18, saying the safety data currently available is insufficient. “The burden of disease is so small and the risks are just not clear,” he said. And while clinical trials are designed to sniff out common side effects, some rarer conditions linked to vaccination may only appear once a shot is in wide use.
https://www.politico.com/news/2021/06/10/kid-covid-vaccines-fda-493267
The meeting materials are available online, at the link below, and they might provide some insights, but I haven’t read any of these documents.
Doc Robinson
ParticipantCraig Murray was convicted and sentenced to 8 months in prison, and the way the effed-up judiciary system “works”, to appeal the conviction (and sentence) he had to first get permission from the same three judges who convicted him. Of course, they denied him permission to appeal, and his only recourse now is to hope that the UK’s Supreme Court will hear his case.
The former diplomat to Uzbekistan, who blew the whistle on his government’s role in covering up torture, could find himself serving his sentence before the Supreme Court even decides on whether to grant permission for him to appeal in the first place, let alone actually considering the merits of the appeal itself.
Murray was convicted because he reported (in his blog) some details about another trial, details which were also reported by the mainstream media (MM). No one in the MM was charged. This selective prosecution was “justified” by the judge, in refusing the appeal, because the MM has codes of practice and ethics” which bloggers do not, which is a ridiculous argument when you consider that both Murray and the MM did the same thing (actually, some in the MM published more than Murray did.)
As Murray puts it,
It seems to me quite incredible to argue that an employee of Murdoch or other tabloids has intrinsically higher ethical standards than a former senior diplomat, British Ambassador and University Rector, and therefore the tabloid hack must be, openly and acknowledged, treated by more favorable standards by the courts.
https://thedissenter.org/whistleblower-craig-murray-appeal-request-rejected/
Doc Robinson
Participant• Mongolia Reports Fresh COVID Outbreak Despite High Vaccination Rates (ZH)
Some additional context:
According to Worldometer and OurWorldInData… Mongolia is now in its first wave of Covid cases. Total cumulative Covid deaths for the entire country, for the past 18 months, are only 334.
With about half of its population fully vaccinated (mostly with the inactived-virus vaccine from Sinopharm), the rising case numbers (Indian variant?) could be largely confined to the half of the population that is not fully vaccinated.
I imagine that this type of article is meant to instill doubts about the Chinese vaccines, especially since they are the traditional type of vaccine that’s competing with the mRNA vaccines being pushed in the US and Europe.
Sinopharm doesn’t look as good as the Sinovac vaccine, which is also made with inactivated Covid viruses. The trial data for the Sinovac vaccine shows it to be much, much safer (in my view) than the mRNA and adenovirus vector vaccines. The adverse reactions from the mRNA vaccines were significantly worse. With the Sinovac vaccine, fever (for example) was almost nonexistent, and some of the trial data shows that headaches (for example) in the vaccinated group were less than in the placebo group.
Much has been made in the press about Sinovac’s lower efficacy, but it still was 100% effective at preventing hospitalizations and deaths, and 84% effective (as I recall) at preventing more than a “very mild” case of Covid (which requires no treatment at all). Sinovac sounds like it could be the ideal type of Covid vaccine, abiding by the “first, do no harm” principle, while being effective enough to prevent Covid from becoming more than a bad cold. Not surprising if the mRNA vaccine makers (and the related narrative makers) are trying to put a negative spin on the more-rational traditional vaccines like Sinovac..
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/mongolia/
https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus/country/mongoliaDoc Robinson
ParticipantThat map of China (“94% live here”) reminds me of this map of Australia (“Only 2% of the Australian population lives in the yellow area.”)

Doc Robinson
Participant• The Real Efficacy of Covid-19 Vaccines (OR)
Before the Covid vaccines were being promoted, the “absolute risk reduction” (ARR) was said to be “the most useful way of presenting research results to help your decision-making.” The relative risk measures were thereby less useful and said to be used “for technical reasons.”
(The article above shows that the Pfizer vaccine’s “absolute risk reduction” didn’t even reach 1%.)
From the National Institute of Health site (nih.gov):
Chapter 18
Relative risk, relative and absolute risk reduction, number needed to treat and confidence intervalsRelative and absolute risks
How do you interpret the results of a randomised controlled trial? A common measure of a treatment is to look at the frequency of bad outcomes of a disease in the group being treated compared with those who were not treated. For instance, supposing that a well-designed randomised controlled trial in children with a particular disease found that 20 per cent of the control group developed bad outcomes, compared with only 12 per cent of those receiving treatment. Should you agree to give this treatment to your child? Without knowing more about the adverse effects of the therapy, it appears to reduce some of the bad outcomes of the disease. But is its effect meaningful?
This is where you need to consider the risk of treatment versus no treatment. In healthcare, risk refers to the probability of a bad outcome in people with the disease.
Absolute risk reduction (ARR) – also called risk difference (RD) – is the most useful way of presenting research results to help your decision-making. In this example, the ARR is 8 per cent (20 per cent – 12 per cent = 8 per cent). This means that, if 100 children were treated, 8 would be prevented from developing bad outcomes. Another way of expressing this is the number needed to treat (NNT). If 8 children out of 100 benefit from treatment, the NNT for one child to benefit is about 13 (100 ÷ 8 = 12.5).
For technical reasons, some other measures are often used. The relative risk (RR) of a bad outcome in a group given intervention is a proportional measure estimating the size of the effect of a treatment compared with other interventions or no treatment at all. It is the proportion of bad outcomes in the intervention group divided by the proportion of bad outcomes in the control group. In this hypothetical case, the RR is 0.6 (12 per cent ÷ 20 per cent = 0.6).
When a treatment has an RR greater than 1, the risk of a bad outcome is increased by the treatment; when the RR is less than 1, the risk of a bad outcome is decreased, meaning that the treatment is likely to do good. For example, when the RR is 2.0 the chance of a bad outcome is twice as likely to occur with the treatment as without it, whereas an RR of 0.5 means that the chance of a bad outcome is twice as likely to occur without the intervention. When the RR is exactly 1, the risk is unchanged. For example, a report may state ‘The relative risk of blindness in people given drug T was 1.5’. This shows that the drug increased the risk of blindness.
Smart Health Choices: Making Sense of Health Advice.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK63647/Doc Robinson
ParticipantThe big push to vaccinate as many people as possible, and all their children, is looking like a frantic race against time, before the adverse reactions and unexpected health issues reach such levels that they cannot be papered over or denied.
Doc Robinson
ParticipantMeanwhile, to encourage employers to require vaccination for workers, OSHA tells employers to go ahead and break the law, it won’t be enforced for at least a year.
Are adverse reactions to the COVID-19 vaccine recordable on the OSHA recordkeeping log?
Answer
The Department of Labor and OSHA, as well as other federal agencies, are working diligently to encourage COVID-19 vaccinations. OSHA does not wish to have any appearance of discouraging workers from receiving COVID-19 vaccination, or disincentivizing employers’ vaccination efforts. As a result, OSHA will not enforce 29 CFR 1904’s recording requirements to require any employers to record worker side effects from COVID-19 vaccination through May 2022. We will reevaluate the agency’s position at that time to determine the best course of action moving forward.Doc Robinson
ParticipantWorkplace requirements will increase the social pressure on the unvaccinated and make them pariahs.
“When California reopens next week, fully vaccinated colleagues working in a room together will be allowed to work maskless. But if one person is unvaccinated, everyone in the room will need to wear a mask.“
(From the NYT article posted earlier in the comments.)
Doc Robinson
ParticipantParents are vaccinating their children because of fear. Their fear is being drummed up. The marketing of Covid vaccines, and the Covid narrative, is based on fear.
Nothing makes us more uncomfortable than fear. And we have so many fears: fear of pain, disease, injury, failure, not being accepted, missing an opportunity, and being scammed, to name a few. Fear invokes the flight or fight system, and our first reaction is often to flee back to our comfort zone. If we don’t know the way back, we are likely to follow whoever shows us a path.
Marketers use fear as a motivator as often as they can. They present a scenario they hope will invoke our sense of fear. Then they show us a solution – a path back to our comfort zone – that entails using their product or service. Fear is used to sell almost everything: cars, tires, and life insurance are classics. But clever marketers also use it to sell breakfast cereal and deodorant. As a result, we purchase all sorts of things that a generation ago were considered unnecessary: antibacterial soap, alarm systems, vitamins. The list goes on and on.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-main-ingredient/200909/the-most-powerful-motivator
Doc Robinson
Participantabsolute galore: “Re my NYT post above: A cynic would say they are manipulating the numbers and using the variants to re-ignite fear and get more people to get vaccinated.”
I agree with the cynic. That article cherry picks some data from Maryland, for example, and ignores some relevant data. Back in January, the daily new positive tests in Maryland (per 100k population) were up around 40 or 50 (peaking above 60 per 100k), while since early May it’s been down below 10, and for the past two weeks it’s been below 5 per 100k.
“Dangerous variants are likely to blame,” ha. They are so “dangerous” that the number of daily new infections are almost negligible (currently 1 per 100k population).
https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/testing/individual-states/maryland
Doc Robinson
ParticipantClarification:
“…with each strand of mRNA potentially replicating multiple times” refers to the replication of the spike protein.Doc Robinson
ParticipantRegarding the Sinovac vaccine (brand name Coronavac), which is a traditional type of vaccine using inactivated Covid-19 viruses, I looked up the adverse reactions from the clinical trials and found that they are quite mild compared to the mRNA and adenovirus vector vaccines.
The main reaction to the Sinovac vaccine was pain at the injection site. Fever was almost nonexistent. Reactions to the vaccine were fairly similar to the reactions for the placebo. In two of the trials, headaches and fatigue were more common in the placebo group than in the vaccinated group.
Taking a quick look at efficacy, during the trials it was around 50% for preventing a “very mild” case (no treatment needed), but it was 100% effective at preventing hospitalization, and 84% effective at preventing a mild case. The confidence intervals were pretty wide, though (probably because the trials had around 10,000 participants instead of 40,000).
The dosage is two injections which contain only 3 micrograms of the inactivated (non-replicating) Covid-19 virus. For comparison, each Pfizer injection contains 30 micrograms of the mRNA (with each strand of mRNA potentially replicating multiple times), and each Moderna injection contains 100 micrograms of the replicating mRNA.
For transport and storage, it only needs to be kept at refrigerator temperatures.
It looks like this Sinovac vaccine is much safer, and better overall, than the Covid vaccines being used in the US and Europe. Perhaps that’s why we don’t hear much about it in the media. Based on what I know now, if I had to get a Covid vaccination, I would want this one.
Doc Robinson
ParticipantWhy can’t more influencers be like WhatsHerFace? Oh, that’s right, they get censored by social media.
Doc Robinson
ParticipantVaxTeen
“Young people taking responsibility for their own health…”If teens can legally consent to the vaccination, they should also be able to legally withhold consent from getting the unnecessary and potentially harmful injections. They could truly be “taking responsibility for their own health,” instead of blindly following the herd or succumbing to pressure from their parents or peers.
The “About” page says VaxTeen was started by a high school senior who works as an epidemiology intern at UCLA. The “partners” of VaxTeen include something called “Keep Up The Rates,” whose website says they are “supported by GSK, Merck & Co., Inc., Pfizer Inc., and Sanofi Pasteur,” all of whom were involved in developing vaccines for Covid-19.
Doc Robinson
Participant“Some people fear the side effects of the shot more than they fear getting the virus.”
It’s obviously a risk-benefit analysis, which is quite rational. The risks and benefits aren’t the same for everyone, so there is no one-size-fits-all answer.
Also, some people have higher levels of immunity to brainwashing, and are more likely to recognize the ongoing attempts to manipulate the masses and manufacture consent. Again, it’s quite rational to resist such manipulation.
I think it’s likely that most of the “millions of holdouts” are motivated by these rational concerns, despite the attempts in the media to paint them as uninformed kooks.
Doc Robinson
ParticipantIlargi: “Good question (we asked this before): where are the life insurance companies?
If they don’t change their policies, that’s a big sign.”A study from December 2020 analyzed 800,000 life insurance policies from 100 insurance companies. The study found that insurance companies did not have to significantly adjust premiums to account for any increased risks from Covid-19. Instead, they found “minimal observable adjustments.”
From the National Bureau of Economic Research:
Did COVID-19 Change Life Insurance Offerings?
“If the earliest predictions of the increase in mortality rate from COVID-19 would have come to fruition, then theory suggests that life insurance companies would have been forced to significantly adjust life insurance premiums or offerings to account for the increased risk. Our findings—from an analysis starting with nearly 100 companies and 800,000 policies—suggest minimal observable adjustments through October 2020.”
Doc Robinson
Participant“Study finds 1 in 3 young teens had COVID, fueling debate over need for vaccine”
Not surprising, since more than 1 in 3 people in the US have had a Covid-19 infection, according to the latest estimate from the CDC. It might actually be significantly higher than that, further reducing the potential benefits of the vaccines, while keeping all their risks to the vaccinated.
“CDC estimates that from February 2020–March 2021… there were approximately:
114.6 Million Estimated Total Infections”https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/burden.html
Doc Robinson
Participant@ ctbarnum
At least until the investigational vaccines get actual approval from the FDA (instead of Emergency Use Authorization), the vaccination decision is not supposed to impact one’s medical care. The “FDA-issued EUA Fact Sheet for Recipients and Caregivers” for all these vaccines specifies that “Should you decide not to receive it, it will not change your standard medical care.”
Pfizer
Fact Sheet for Recipients and CaregiversWHAT IF I DECIDE NOT TO GET THE PFIZER-BIONTECH COVID-19 VACCINE?
It is your choice to receive or not receive the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine.
Should you decide not to receive it, it will not change your standard medical care.Moderna
Fact Sheet for Recipients and CaregiversWHAT IF I DECIDE NOT TO GET THE MODERNA COVID-19 VACCINE?
It is your choice to receive or not receive the Moderna COVID-19 Vaccine. Should you decide
not to receive it, it will not change your standard medical care.Janssen (Johnson & Johnson)
Fact Sheet for Recipients and CaregiversWHAT IF I DECIDE NOT TO GET THE JANSSEN COVID-19 VACCINE?
It is your choice to receive or not receive the Janssen COVID-19 Vaccine. Should you decide not
to receive it, it will not change your standard medical care.Doc Robinson
Participantmy parents said know: “If you met someone who was not…well-read– , but they were interested, where would you direct them? …newly doubtful.”
The “Facts about Covid-19” page at the Swiss Policy Research site might be suitable. It’s comprehensive, and the tone is more matter-of-fact and verifiable than some of the more alarmist sites. It has hyperlinks to more detailed pages.
For example, the Overview section says this about Lethality:
According to the latest immunological studies, the overall infection fatality rate (IFR) of covid-19 in the general population is about 0.1% to 0.5% in most countries…
Even when using the CDC’s numbers, this is true for the US. I checked, and the IFR is a little less than one-half of one percent (meaning the average survival rate for the unvaccinated is around 99.5%).
Doc Robinson
Participant@ VietnamVet: Yep.
I suspect the “we need everyone to be vaccinated” mania is part of the mindf*ckery, to distract the masses and convince them that the inevitable unvaccinated segment of the population will be to blame for the continued problems resulting from the government’s bungling and overreliance on a silver bullet vaccine (breakthrough cases, vaccine-resistant variants and additional outbreaks, not to mention all the preventable deaths).
Doc Robinson
ParticipantYoung people and COVID-19: emerging mental health concerns
This recent article in a medical journal blames it all on COVID-19, when it’s really the government’s reactions that are causing the mental health issues (with assistance from the media). COVID-19 didn’t close the schools, isolate the children in their homes, and instill fear and anxiety in them.
COVID-19 has brought numerous challenges for young people and their families: closures of schools, reduced contact with peers, academic stress, exposure to potential harm in homes, and the fear and anxiety of contracting and transmitting COVID-19.
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/01410768211018941
Doc Robinson
Participant“An anagram for Dr Anthony Fauci is China Fraud Tony”y
That’s great. My insults are more juvenile.
Don’t trust the Dr. Faux-Sci.
Dr. Foul-Shi# needs to be flushed.
Doc Robinson
Participant…there is a very real threat of a rapidly moving, highly lethal pandemic of a respiratory pathogen killing 50 to 80 million people and wiping out nearly 5% of the world’s economy”
So far, less than 4 million deaths worldwide have been attributed to Covid-19, but the global economy had an estimated 5.2% drop in GDP during 2020.
The COVID-19 outbreak has triggered a world economic disruption of significant magnitude with an escalating pace, resulting in steep recessions in many countries. The COVID-19 pandemic has caused an unprecedented global economic impact at an astonishing rate, leading to rapid economic downturns in many countries. Despite exceptional policy support, the baseline forecast envisages a 5.2 percent decline in global Gross domestic product (GDP) in 2020, the deepest global recession in eight decades.
Doc Robinson
ParticipantThe potential dangers of an accidental or intentional release of “a novel, high-impact respiratory pathogen” was emphasized in a major report from WHO in 2019, a few months after the mystery outbreak near Fort Detrick. The cover of the report includes a picture of a coronavirus.
A World at Risk, September 2019
...there is a very real threat of a rapidly moving, highly lethal pandemic of a respiratory pathogen killing 50 to 80 million people and wiping out nearly 5% of the world’s economy. A global pandemic on that scale would be catastrophic, creating widespread havoc, instability and insecurity. The world is not prepared…
A rapidly spreading pandemic due to a lethal respiratory pathogen (whether naturally emergent or accidentally or deliberately released) poses additional preparedness requirements. Donors and multilateral institutions must ensure adequate investment in developing innovative vaccines and therapeutics, surge manufacturing capacity, broad-spectrum antivirals and appropriate non-pharmaceutical interventions. All countries must develop a system for immediately sharing genome sequences of any new pathogen for public health purposes along with the means to share limited medical countermeasures across countries…
In addition to a greater risk of pandemics from natural pathogens, scientific developments allow for disease-causing microorganisms to be engineered or recreated in laboratories. Should countries, terrorist groups, or scientifically advanced individuals create or obtain and then use biological weapons that have the characteristics of a novel, high-impact respiratory pathogen, the consequences could be as severe as, or even greater, than those of a natural epidemic, as could an accidental release of epidemic-prone microorganisms…
It looks like the report was also intended as a fundraiser for the WHO.
WHO is underfunded
WHO lacks the predictable, flexible and sustainable funding it needs to play its critical role in coordinating preparedness and response and supporting country health systems. Nearly 80% of the WHO budget is voluntary and highly earmarked, precluding holistic preparedness efforts and hindering WHO’s ability to provide a global safety net…
https://apps.who.int/gpmb/assets/annual_report/GPMB_Annual_Report_English.pdf
Doc Robinson
ParticipantFrom article linked by Germ:
But the rate of myocarditis following vaccination among young men was higher. Ninety percent of the cases picked up in Israel appeared in men, and although myocarditis is normally more common among young men, the rate among those vaccinated was somewhere between five and 25 times the background rate, the report says. (Two cases of fatal myocarditis have also been reported in Israel…
It’s not clear why the two vaccines, which both rely on messenger RNA (mRNA), might heighten the risk.
So it’s “not clear” why the Covid vaccines have all those unintended consequences?
It’s clear to me. It’s because the vaccine makers are hastily tinkering with systems they don’t fully understand. They are playing with fire, causing other people to get burnt.
Doc Robinson
ParticipantAbout the Sinovac vaccine (inactivated Covid virus), it’s been getting some good press lately.
Sinovac Biotech vaccine effective in controlling Covid-19, new study shows
The vaccine developed by Sinovac Biotech was effective in controlling Covid-19 in a mass-inoculation study in a small Brazilian town after 75 per cent of adults were covered with a second shot, preliminary numbers show…
While neighboring cities were being hit hard by the pandemic, Serrana saw deaths fall by 95 per cent in the five weeks right after the mass-vaccination was completed. Symptomatic cases dropped by 80 per cent and hospitalisations decreased by 86 per cent…
No severe side effects from the vaccine were reported and there were no Covid-related deaths among participants 14 days after the second dose was applied.
https://www.irishtimes.com/business/health-pharma/sinovac-biotech-vaccine-effective-in-controlling-covid-19-new-study-shows-1.4580406
China’s Sinovac vaccine may be better than previously thought: It was 94% effective at preventing symptomatic COVID-19 in a real-world study, Indonesian officials said
The two-dose COVID-19 vaccine developed by Chinese biotech Sinovac is highly effective at preventing hospitalization and death, Indonesian health officials said Wednesday.
The vaccine, called Coronavac, was an estimated 98% effective at preventing death and 96% effective at preventing hospitalization, Pandji Dhewantara, an Indonesian health ministry official, said in a press briefing.
The stats were based on 128,000 health workers who received the shot in Jakarta, the capital of Indonesia, and were monitored between January and March.
https://www.businessinsider.com/china-sinovac-covid-vaccine-efficacy-effective-real-world-study-2021-5?op=1
Doc Robinson
Participant@ V. Arnold
The Sputnik V is like the Oxford/AstraZeneca and the Johnson&Johnson, in that they use inactivated adenoviruses (unrelated to the Covid virus) to carry the genetic code for the Covid spike protein. The Covid vaccines which are similar to Salk’s polio vaccine, in that they use an inactivated version of the virus that causes the disease they are trying to prevent, include Sinovac and Sinopharm.
Doc Robinson
ParticipantIt’s well known that the Pfizer and Moderna mRNA vaccines use lipid nanoparticles (LNP). An article published today by Nature points out that “While a variety of delivery systems for mRNA vaccine have been developed [such as LNP], there are still concerns regarding unfavorable biodistribution pattern due to their unique size and composition… In an effort to circumvent these issues, we applied a core–shell structured lipopolyplex (LPP) platform for mRNA vaccine production.”
The article describes the tests done on a new an improved type of mRNA vaccine, named SW0123, which uses this LPP platform (instead of the LNP), and “intramuscular administration of SW0123 demonstrated a favorable biodistribution pattern with limited accumulation in the liver or other major organs, thus indicating a benign and desirable toxicity profile…Also, the unique combination of size and composition of LPP allowed retention of the vaccine particles at the injection site, thus preventing vaccine particles from triggering organ-specific side effects, for example liver accumulating effect observed for LNP-mRNA formulations shown in this study and also by others. Such biodistribution pattern [with LNP] may lead to activation of liver-resident cells that subsequently cause tissue damage and inflammation, thus contributing to high reactogenicity.”
The images below show how the LPP-based vaccine spread to less organs than the LNP-based vaccine.

It looks like Pfizer and Moderna took a wrong turn (with LNP instead of LPP) during their rush to develop their mRNA vaccines.
A core-shell structured COVID-19 mRNA vaccine with favorable biodistribution pattern and promising immunity
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41392-021-00634-zDoc Robinson
Participant“US Senators sent straight up extortion letters to members of Facebook’s Libra Consortium threatening to investigate them for ostensible ties to child pornography on Facebook’s platform if they went through with the project. They all dropped out.”
I’m wary of that type of extortion, where the government seems to ignore violations of laws while keeping track of them nonetheless. The threat of prosecution can be later used to get something (information, cooperation, behavior modification…)
One potential example is the failure to register for the draft, which in the US “is a felony punishable by a fine of up to $250,000 and/or 5 years imprisonment.” I’m guessing there are many people who didn’t register, but prosecutions seem rare or nonexistent. However, the threat of 5 years imprisonment can be wielded to get information or cooperation from these people later.
Doc Robinson
ParticipantGerm: “Bio-distribution data is in…Clearly shows nano-lipid particles from BioNTech vaccine bio-concentrating in ovaries, uterus and lymph nodes over 24 hrs.”
More context: That data is evidently from a study done on rats which were injected with a 50 microgram dose (while much larger humans are getting vaccinated with 30 microgram doses.)
See page 16/23 of this document:
https://www.pmda.go.jp/drugs/2021/P20210212001/672212000_30300AMX00231_I100_1.pdfDoc Robinson
Participant• Fort Detrick Base Is Full Of Suspicions – China (RT)
A related summary and timeline I pieced together from some news at the time, about the outbreak at the Greenspring Retirement Community (an hour’s drive from Fort Detrick).
“The symptoms usually start with a cough. In less than 2 weeks, a mystery virus at Springfield’s Greenspring Retirement Community has gotten 55 residents sick. Twenty have been hospitalized — some with pneumonia — and two people have died…”
This happened in early July, 2019, at a long-term care facility in Springfield, Virginia, located 13 miles from DC, and 55 miles from Fort Detrick. The county health department did testing for “common pathogens” but all the test results were negative. The state health department and the CDC got involved with the testing. The CDC couldn’t (or wouldn’t) identify the cause of the outbreak.
Coincidentally(?), the CDC shut down research at Fort Detrick on July 15.
By July 17, an outbreak at another retirement community, Heatherwood (in Burke, Virginia, 7 miles from Greenspring), was being investigated by the county health department and the CDC. “There is no evidence of any connection between this and the outbreak and Greenspring.”
On July 19, the state health department issued a warning about an increase in respiratory illnesses in multiple regions across the state. “Since the end of flu season in May, the Virginia Department of Health has received increased reports of respiratory (breathing) illness across the Commonwealth greater than observed in previous summers. Most of the reports have occurred among older adults and those with chronic medical conditions in assisted living and long-term care facilities.”
By July 26, after at least 2 weeks of “extensive testing”, with at least 17 samples, the CDC reportedly was unable to identify the cause of the outbreak at Greenspring. “Despite extensive testing of multiple specimens, no specific pathogen was identified as the cause of the outbreak.”
The final update from the county health department, on July 29, said the testing at the second community, Heatherwood, indicated rhinovirus, which is “the respiratory virus most frequently found in humans and the main source of the common cold.” The cause of the outbreak at Greenspring has never been fully identified publicly, to my knowledge.
July 11, 2019:
Fairfax County Health Department is conducting an outbreak investigation at Greenspring, a long-term care facility with assisted living and skilled nursing care, in Springfield, Va. The Health Department was recently informed that over the last 11 days a total of 54 individuals out of the 263 residents in this facility have become ill with respiratory symptoms ranging from upper respiratory symptoms (cough) to pneumonia. Of the ill individuals, 18 have been hospitalized and two have died. The individuals who died were hospitalized with pneumonia. Both were older adults and had complex medical problems. The Health Department does not know the full medical history and the extent to which the pneumonia contributed to the deaths. A specific cause has not yet been identified but additional tests are being done by the Virginia Department of Health and Inova Health System.
https://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/health/outbreak-investigation-assisted-living-facility-springfieldJuly 12, 2019 (Local news story):
The symptoms usually start with a cough. In less than 2 weeks, a mystery virus at Springfield’s Greenspring Retirement Community has gotten 55 residents sick. Twenty have been hospitalized — some with pneumonia — and two people have died… …Dr. Schwartz says the community is taking proper steps and thoroughly cleaning the facility while Inova Health and the Center for Disease Control and Prevention work to figure out what kind of a virus this is and how it is spreading. “These panels have looked for several of the most common pathogens and they have been negative so far,” said Dr. Schwartz.
https://wjla.com/news/local/mystery-virus-greenspring-retirement-cdc-vaMeanwhile, at Fort Detrick;
“The CDC sent a letter of concern on July 12, followed by a cease and desist letter July 15.”
https://www.military.com/daily-news/2019/11/24/cdc-inspection-findings-reveal-more-about-fort-detrick-research-suspension.htmlJuly 15 update (from the Health Department at Fairfield County):
“No cause for the illnesses has yet been identified, but the Health Department is working with the Virginia Department of Health and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) to conduct testing for viruses and bacteria that may cause respiratory illness.”July 16 update:
“Results of testing by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) are still pending”July 17 update:
“CDC tested 17 specimens from ill Greenspring residents. No cause for the outbreak was identified.“
“The Health Department is also investigating an outbreak of respiratory illness at Heatherwood, an assisted-living facility in Burke, VA. There is no evidence of any connection between this and the outbreak and Greenspring. The Health Department is working with Heatherwood to ensure appropriate measures are taken to reduce the risk of infection and keep residents safe. Samples are also being tested at CDC labs.”July 19 update:
“Additional laboratory testing from CDC has not identified a specific cause for the increase in respiratory illness.”July 19 (WaPo):
Third person has died after respiratory illness outbreak at Greenspring Village, Fairfax officials say
CDC has tested 17 samples but has so far failed to identify the cause.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2019/07/17/third-person-has-died-after-respiratory-illness-outbreak-greenspring-village-fairfax-officials-say/July 19 (Virginia Department of Health):
“Since the end of flu season in May, the Virginia Department of Health has received increased reports of respiratory (breathing) illness across the Commonwealth greater than observed in previous summers. Most of the reports have occurred among older adults and those with chronic medical conditions in assisted living and long-term care facilities.”
https://www.vdh.virginia.gov/news/public-relations-contacts/archived-news-releases/2019-news-releases/virginia-department-of-health-warns-residents-of-increase-in-respiratory-illnesses-2/July 26 update:
“Despite extensive testing of multiple specimens, no specific pathogen was identified as the cause of the outbreak.”July 26 (local newspaper):
“Working with the county health department along with the Virginia Department of Health, the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention tested 17 samples taken from ill residents, but as of July 19, the agency had not been able to identify a specific cause for the sudden uptick in respiratory illness from either that initial testing or additional laboratory testing. CDC test results uncovered several bacteria known to “colonize” the nose and throat but may not be the cause of infection, and several specimens tested positive rhinovirus, the respiratory virus most frequently found in humans and the main source of the common cold, according to the Fairfax County Health Department.”
http://www.fairfaxtimes.com/articles/three-dead-amid-respiratory-illness-outbreak-in-springfield/article_ce2c4b14-afd8-11e9-959b-7f6fe03817ca.htmlJuly 26 (final update from health department about the outbreak at Greenspring):
“Despite extensive testing of multiple specimens, no specific pathogen was identified as the cause of the outbreak [at Greenspring].”
https://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/health/outbreak-investigation-assisted-living-facility-springfieldJuly 29 (final update from health department about the outbreak at Heatherwood):
“Results of earlier testing [at Heatherwood] submitted to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention indicated rhinovirus, a virus that causes the common cold.“
https://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/health/outbreak-investigation-assisted-living-facility-springfieldDoc Robinson
ParticipantA reminder of some of the many problems with Fort Detrick (and the CDC), as described in a mainstream newspaper article:
Trouble in the air at Fort Detrick
by Kenneth King
The Baltimore Sun
February 28, 2011Even without deliberately floating its germs in the air, USAMRIID [Fort Detrick’s U.S. Army Medical Research Institute for Infectious Diseases] has had trouble keeping track of them. In 2009, it discovered 9,200-plus vials (one-eighth of its stock) weren’t logged into inventory. In 2003, while cleaning up a leaking Detrick chemical dump, employees found 100-plus vials of buried live bacteria. “The documentation for where this came from doesn’t exist,” Detrick’s safety director at the time, Lt. Col. Donald Archibald, stammered.
There have been multiple instances since 2001 of Detrick anthrax ending up at places it wasn’t supposed to be — inside the facility and (according to the FBI) outside as well, in the U.S. Postal Service.
In 2009, after safety lapses exposed a USAMRIID researcher to tularemia, two weeks passed before anyone suspected her illness was tularemia, the focus of her research. At Boston University in 2004, and at Texas A&M in 2006, months elapsed before infected researchers were correctly diagnosed. Sick biodefense researchers seem rarely to suspect the diseases they’re researching.
Lab-acquired infections are a particular concern now that researchers at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, the University of Wisconsin and elsewhere have brought the 1918 flu back to life, and developed deadly bird flus that transmit easily between humans.
Such recklessness makes laughable USAMRIID Commander John Skvorak’s declaration that USAMRIID is “tightly regulated” by the Army and CDC. The Government Accountability Office’s chief technologist testified in 2007 that the country’s now 1,300-plus “high-containment” germ labs were essentially regulating themselves. Little has changed since then.
According to the Dallas Morning News, CDC inspections missed or ignored a veritable biosafety train wreck at Texas A&M until a public expose by a small nonprofit forced the CDC to suspend the university’s select agent research and investigate further. The red-faced agency ultimately issued a 21-page report on A&M’s safety lapses.
CDC administrators ignored warnings of their own engineers about the backup power configuration for the CDC’s new suite of BSL-4 labs, causing a complete power loss and loss of negative air pressure in 2007. A second power loss occurred in occupied CDC labs that same year.
The CDC didn’t even require that research developing new bird flus — probably the most dangerous germ research in the country — be conducted at the highest level of containment.
The CDC also allowed USAMRIID researcher Peter Jahrling to conduct experiments trying to infect monkeys with smallpox. Currently, smallpox does not infect animals other than humans. That’s why world health authorities were able (they thought) to eradicate the disease. Risking the establishment of an animal reservoir for smallpox makes about as much sense as resurrecting the 1918 flu.
The CDC’s reputation for “safety” rests on its secrecy, and on the fact that it hasn’t killed anyone in Atlanta since two janitors died of Rocky Mountain spotted fever in 1976.
https://www.baltimoresun.com/opinion/bs-xpm-2011-02-28-bs-ed-detrick-20110228-story.html
Doc Robinson
Participant• Fort Detrick Base Is Full Of Suspicions – China (RT)
[Posted again without links after first attempt failed to post.]
A related summary and timeline I pieced together from some news at the time, about the outbreak at the Greenspring Retirement Community (an hour’s drive from Fort Detrick).
“The symptoms usually start with a cough. In less than 2 weeks, a mystery virus at Springfield’s Greenspring Retirement Community has gotten 55 residents sick. Twenty have been hospitalized — some with pneumonia — and two people have died…”
This happened in early July, 2019, at a long-term care facility in Springfield, Virginia, located 13 miles from DC, and 55 miles from Fort Detrick. The county health department did testing for “common pathogens” but all the test results were negative. The state health department and the CDC got involved with the testing. The CDC couldn’t (or wouldn’t) identify the cause of the outbreak.
Coincidentally(?), the CDC shut down research at Fort Detrick on July 15.
By July 17, an outbreak at another retirement community, Heatherwood (in Burke, Virginia, 7 miles from Greenspring), was being investigated by the county health department and the CDC. “There is no evidence of any connection between this and the outbreak and Greenspring.”
On July 19, the state health department issued a warning about an increase in respiratory illnesses in multiple regions across the state. “Since the end of flu season in May, the Virginia Department of Health has received increased reports of respiratory (breathing) illness across the Commonwealth greater than observed in previous summers. Most of the reports have occurred among older adults and those with chronic medical conditions in assisted living and long-term care facilities.”
By July 26, after at least 2 weeks of “extensive testing”, with at least 17 samples, the CDC reportedly was unable to identify the cause of the outbreak at Greenspring. “Despite extensive testing of multiple specimens, no specific pathogen was identified as the cause of the outbreak.”
The final update from the county health department, on July 29, said the testing at the second community, Heatherwood, indicated rhinovirus, which is “the respiratory virus most frequently found in humans and the main source of the common cold.” The cause of the outbreak at Greenspring has never been fully identified publicly, to my knowledge.
July 11, 2019:
Fairfax County Health Department is conducting an outbreak investigation at Greenspring, a long-term care facility with assisted living and skilled nursing care, in Springfield, Va. The Health Department was recently informed that over the last 11 days a total of 54 individuals out of the 263 residents in this facility have become ill with respiratory symptoms ranging from upper respiratory symptoms (cough) to pneumonia. Of the ill individuals, 18 have been hospitalized and two have died. The individuals who died were hospitalized with pneumonia. Both were older adults and had complex medical problems. The Health Department does not know the full medical history and the extent to which the pneumonia contributed to the deaths. A specific cause has not yet been identified but additional tests are being done by the Virginia Department of Health and Inova Health System.July 12, 2019 (Local news story):
The symptoms usually start with a cough. In less than 2 weeks, a mystery virus at Springfield’s Greenspring Retirement Community has gotten 55 residents sick. Twenty have been hospitalized — some with pneumonia — and two people have died… …Dr. Schwartz says the community is taking proper steps and thoroughly cleaning the facility while Inova Health and the Center for Disease Control and Prevention work to figure out what kind of a virus this is and how it is spreading. “These panels have looked for several of the most common pathogens and they have been negative so far,” said Dr. Schwartz.Meanwhile, at Fort Detrick;
“The CDC sent a letter of concern on July 12, followed by a cease and desist letter July 15.”July 15 update (from the Health Department at Fairfield County):
“No cause for the illnesses has yet been identified, but the Health Department is working with the Virginia Department of Health and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) to conduct testing for viruses and bacteria that may cause respiratory illness.”July 16 update:
“Results of testing by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) are still pending”July 17 update:
“CDC tested 17 specimens from ill Greenspring residents. No cause for the outbreak was identified.“
“The Health Department is also investigating an outbreak of respiratory illness at Heatherwood, an assisted-living facility in Burke, VA. There is no evidence of any connection between this and the outbreak and Greenspring. The Health Department is working with Heatherwood to ensure appropriate measures are taken to reduce the risk of infection and keep residents safe. Samples are also being tested at CDC labs.”July 19 update:
“Additional laboratory testing from CDC has not identified a specific cause for the increase in respiratory illness.”July 19 (WaPo):
Third person has died after respiratory illness outbreak at Greenspring Village, Fairfax officials say
CDC has tested 17 samples but has so far failed to identify the cause.July 19 (Virginia Department of Health):
“Since the end of flu season in May, the Virginia Department of Health has received increased reports of respiratory (breathing) illness across the Commonwealth greater than observed in previous summers. Most of the reports have occurred among older adults and those with chronic medical conditions in assisted living and long-term care facilities.”July 26 update:
“Despite extensive testing of multiple specimens, no specific pathogen was identified as the cause of the outbreak.”July 26 (local newspaper):
“Working with the county health department along with the Virginia Department of Health, the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention tested 17 samples taken from ill residents, but as of July 19, the agency had not been able to identify a specific cause for the sudden uptick in respiratory illness from either that initial testing or additional laboratory testing. CDC test results uncovered several bacteria known to “colonize” the nose and throat but may not be the cause of infection, and several specimens tested positive rhinovirus, the respiratory virus most frequently found in humans and the main source of the common cold, according to the Fairfax County Health Department.”July 26 (final update from health department about the outbreak at Greenspring):
“Despite extensive testing of multiple specimens, no specific pathogen was identified as the cause of the outbreak [at Greenspring].”July 29 (final update from health department about the outbreak at Heatherwood):
“Results of earlier testing [at Heatherwood] submitted to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention indicated rhinovirus, a virus that causes the common cold.“
[for links to articles, check the comment section at the Debt Rattle for 17 May, 2020]
Doc Robinson
Participantmy parents said know: “We are truly babies with razor blades.”
When extremely complex systems are being tinkered with by people who don’t fully understand them (and nobody fully understands them), unintended consequences seem likely.
Doc Robinson
Participantmy parents said know: ” the vaccine’s [spike protein] is not quite the same thing (by a very tiny amount).”
The article I linked earlier explains that the freestanding spike proteins which are coded by the mRNA vaccines have a small adjustment to make them similar to the “pre-fusion” rigid spike proteins which are mounted on the surface of the coronavirus. Without this adjustment, the freestanding spike proteins would collapse into a different structure, causing an immune reaction to this different structure (and not against the pre-fusion coronavirus).
Proponents of the vaccines argue that the resulting spike proteins fixed in the pre-fusion condition will stay that way in the body, and cannot cause harm like the spikes on the actual coronavirus.
When we compare the entire Spike protein in the vaccine, all changes are synonymous like this.. except for two, and this is what we see here.
The third and fourth codons above represent actual changes. The K and V amino acids there are both replaced by ‘P’ or Proline. For ‘K’ this required three changes (‘!!!’) and for ‘V’ it required only two (‘!!’).
It turns out that these two changes enhance the vaccine efficiency enormously.
So what is happening here? If you look at a real SARS-CoV-2 particle, you can see the Spike protein as, well, a bunch of spikes:
[SARS virus particles (Wikipedia)]
The spikes are mounted on the virus body (‘the nucleocapsid protein’). But the thing is, our vaccine is only generating the spikes itself, and we’re not mounting them on any kind of virus body.
It turns out that, unmodified, freestanding Spike proteins collapse into a different structure. If injected as a vaccine, this would indeed cause our bodies to develop immunity.. but only against the collapsed spike protein.
And the real SARS-CoV-2 shows up with the spiky Spike. The vaccine would not work very well in that case.
So what to do? In 2017 it was described how putting a double Proline substitution in just the right place would make the SARS-CoV-1 and MERS S proteins take up their ‘pre-fusion’ configuration, even without being part of the whole virus. This works because Proline is a very rigid amino acid. It acts as a kind of splint, stabilising the protein in the state we need to show to the immune system.
https://berthub.eu/articles/posts/reverse-engineering-source-code-of-the-biontech-pfizer-vaccine/
Another name for the fixed pre-fusion spike is “stabilised spike” as described in the article “COVID vaccines from Pfizer, Moderna, J&J & Novavax code for a “Stabilised Spike”. Why did they stabilise the Spike and have Oxford AZ made a mistake by not stabilising the Spike?”
Doc Robinson
ParticipantThis article gives some details about the number of mRNA molecules are in each dose of Pfizer’s vaccine.
Each dose includes 30 micrograms of RNA.
The RNA’s digital code has 4,284 characters.
If the author’s calculations are correct, then there are 13,000 billion (or 13 trillion) RNA molecules per dose.The BNT162b2 mRNA vaccine has this digital code at its heart. It is 4284 characters long, so it would fit in a bunch of tweets… A 30 microgram dose turns out to actually contain 30 micrograms of RNA. In addition, there is a clever lipid (fatty) packaging system that gets the mRNA into our cells… Each RNA character weighs on the order of 0.53·10⁻²¹ grams, meaning there are around 6·10¹⁶ characters in a single 30 microgram vaccine dose. Expressed in bytes, this is around 14 petabytes, although it must be said this consists of around 13,000 billion repetitions of the same 4284 characters.
The same article mentions that each of those mRNA molecules can be used many times by the cell (to make spike protein) before it degrades and gets discarded.
The very end of mRNA is polyadenylated. This is a fancy way of saying it ends on a lot of AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA…
mRNA can be reused many times, but as this happens, it also loses some of the A’s at the end. Once the A’s run out, the mRNA is no longer functional and gets discarded.Reverse Engineering the source code of the BioNTech/Pfizer SARS-CoV-2 Vaccine
https://berthub.eu/articles/posts/reverse-engineering-source-code-of-the-biontech-pfizer-vaccine/Doc Robinson
ParticipantDarkMatter: “Germ stated that 2) is correct and that the ‘vaccine’ creates many more spike proteins than infections would. Does anyone else have additional insight?”
I’d like to see the calculations behind that. During a Covid infection, the number of viruses in the body is estimated to peak at somewhere between 1 billion and 100 billion. Each individual virus has many spike proteins.
We estimate that each infected person carries 10^9-10^11 [1 billion -100 billion] virions during peak infection, with a total mass of about 1 μg-0.1 mg, which curiously implies that all SARS-CoV-2 virions currently in the world have a mass of only 0.1-1 kg.
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.11.16.20232009v1
I haven’t seen any clear information about how many molecules of mRNA are in each dose, and how many spike proteins can result from each mRNA molecule.
Doc Robinson
ParticipantJohn Day: “Dr. Marty Makary made the comments during a recent interview, noting that “natural immunity works” and it is wrong to vilify those who don’t want the vaccine because they have already recovered from the virus.”
Dr. Marty Makary (a professor at Johns Hopkins) says this about the “lab leak hypothesis”:
“The lab leak hypothesis is no longer a hypothesis, in my opinion, it is the default conclusion of the circumstantial evidence… Politicians will grandstand demanding a ‘full investigation’ but there is ample circumstantial evidence of a lab leak. More investigating is futile—a political distraction. Original lab samples have likely been destroyed & the 1st treating doctor has died.”
Politicians will grandstand demanding a ‘full investigation’ but there is ample circumstantial evidence of a lab leak. More investigating is futile—a political distraction. Original lab samples have likely been destroyed & the 1st treating doctor has died. https://t.co/V9STPOvbj0
— Marty Makary MD, MPH (@MartyMakary) May 26, 2021
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