Forum Replies Created
From the previous thread:
“How many readers read all of THE cafone’s incessant postings and how many don’t get past the first sentence?
How many people would like THE cafone to find another way of handling his ADHD outside of the TAE environment?”
Occam’s razor – a frequently morphing account emerges that dominates and frequently and increasingly misdirects discussion.
Such an account is:
a) probably genuine. They need a home and place to express themselves (ie a real appeal to genuine emotion)
b) most likely BS. TAE is a genuine and effective community and must be disrupted. Inject maximum BS to achieve the result
Myself, I’m with b). Best solutions?
I realize that my early childhood, which was wonderfully pleasant, was uniquely configured to give me uncommon internal intellectual fortitude, by which I mean willingness to trust myself over authority. That and a few unexpected events made it possible for me to steadily locate and reduce my naivete, something that, looking back, has developed at an increasing rate culminating in a nearly complete functioning cynicism by age 60.
I’m the opposite.. I grew up with a stratospheric level of gullibility and naivete.. probably a product of both nature and nurture. Then a series of life smack-downs laid me slow and I began a long slow reboot through dependency (on programmes, mentors etc) re-individuation to the current hybrid of socially conscious and connected but fiercely independent – genuinely interdependent to the best of my ability.
Shedding layers of naivete and trying to look the world squarely in the face (with varying degrees of success) is something I very much identify with
I think it will be hard for people to process the enormity of the lies they have been fed and believed. And then when they understand what that implies…
Remarkably few people reach a point of maturity to grasp the sheer banality of most of the evil in the world. Many might grasp that starving 500k Iraqis to death with sanctions is evil, but go full denial on the idea that valid treatments such as Ivermectin are deliberately withheld, causing thousands of deaths, and most likely due to motives of profit and power.
That’s the type of naivete and evil that I believe TAE Summary was refering to. It’s not a pejorative statement but rather a simple statement of the psychological facts. It might be wise in debate not to call someone naive, but that doesn’t change the fact of their underlying naivete..
OK.. that’s a fail. Any suggestions how a table can be embedded or attached to a WordPress post?
I’ve been trying to compile the TAE Summary post from a couple of days back into a table. The perfection of TAE’s (playing the gender pronoun game..) matching the competing narratives was sublime. But after I’d copied/pasted into a table I realise what was needed was a column for “why”.
Obviously the vast majority of people couldn’t care less, but for those whose mental constructs are amenable to tables, I think it’s a useful construct. Not sure if it’ll post in this format, but trying:
The Mainstream Narrative The Counter Narrative Why?
– It is not known where Covid 19 originated but the most likely origin is the transmission from an animal to humans – Covid 19 was most likely created in a lab in China or the US There is no evidence of the interim stages required for a bat virus totransform into Covid
– Covid 19 has killed 600K people in the US – Covid 19 kills people but far fewer than the official count Covid cases have been inflated by using PCR tests at cycles they produce false results
– Trump botched the Covid 19 response costing many lives – Almost all officials in government have botched the Covid 19 response, costing many lives The international response has been incredibly uniform, with releasing far too little information(and far to late) for their actions to be challenged. Qualified dissenting scientific voices have been routinely silenced for challenging the government narrative
– Many deaths were preventable if we’d tested, masked, tracked and locked down better – Most deaths were preventable if we had investigated and deployed early treatments including vitamin D, zinc, hydrochloroquine and ivermectin Evidence for the effectiveness of Hydroxychloroquine was available very early, but since Trump voiced it, the media went into overdrive to disagree. Numerous (safe and effective) treatment have been demonstrated since then and discussion of all have been suppressed. The nb: The Covid “Vaccines” could not be deployed under law if these alternative treatmentswwere admitted to be effective.
– Vaccines are good and have eradicated polio, measles, whooping cough and other diseases – Vaccines are good and have eradicated polio, measles, whooping cough and other diseases There is no argument here, despite many mainstream vaccine “boosters” pretending counter narrative people “don’t trust vaccines”
– Vaccines against Covid 19 are safe and effective and have saved many lives with only minor, acceptable adverse reactions – The Covid 19 vaccines however are not actually vaccines but gene therapy and have not been adequately tested. The Covid 19 vaccines have serious side effects including death and other as yet unknown consequences which are not being investigated and are suppressed by the media There have been more deaths from the Covid vaccines in the US this year *tha the total of all deaths from all vaccine in the two decades prior”. Regardless of whether there is justification for deploying the Covid jabs, stating they are “safe” is quite simply a lie by all historical standards
– There are no effective treatments for Covid 19 besides the vaccines – We need to defeat Covid 19 and the best way to do this is through early outpatient treatment with known, effective drugs and known drug protocols for hospitalized patients See above. There is ample evidence from countries that are using these treatments such as Indonesia, India etc that Ivermectin, Hydroxychloroquine etc are effective and safe (they’ve been used for decades with negligible and well-understood side effects)
– Covid is spread by droplets and aerosols from infected people, both symptomatic and asymptomatic, and can be spread through momentary casual contact both indoors and outdoors – Covid 19 is primary spread by aerosols from symptomatic and pre-symptomatic people, mostly in indoor situations with poor ventilation where peoples spend a long time together The latest studies show that previously-vaccinated people who contract Covid (and none of the jabs are even claimed by manufacturers to prevent recipients subsequently catching Covid) sometimes carry a viral load many times that of unvaccinated people, without showing major symptoms. We are actively creating more effective “super-spreaders” with the “vaccinations”, than any were without them. This has *never been a characteristic of any previously approved vaccine
– Children and young adults are at risk form Covid 19 and can spread the disease and should take the same precautions and measures as adults – Children and young adults are at low risk from Covid 19 and need take fewer precautions and measures but should be treated with drug protocols if infected Because Covid is far more dangerous to elderly people (unlike many previous pandemics such as Spanish flue, which were highly dangerous to young people), the risk from the vaccines is far greater than the risk from Covid
– We need to do whatever it takes to defeat Covid 19 including frequent testing, mass vaccination, continued locked downs and wearing masks – Masks, distancing and lockdowns are mostly ineffective 20 years of science has previously said that masks are effectively useless for preventing transmission of viruses. Faunci et al said exactly the same at the start of the Covid scare. The subsequent science has not changed. A tiny number of studies have concluded otherwise and are being cherry-picked to support the scare narrative
– The best information comes from the CDC, FDA and NIH – The best information comes from front line doctors who actually treat patients and experienced researchers who have no financial interest in big pharma The pursuit of science is defined as a controversial pursuit, where nothing can be proved for certain, and everything can (and should) be challenged. When anyone states “the science is settled” they are – by definition – lying. Science, by definition says “our best understand right now is…”
– The mainstream media warns us of the dangers of Covid 19 but unfortunately many do not take these warnings seriously – The CDC, FDA and NIH are largely compromised because of their association and funding by drug companies The “warnings” have been an almost-constant stream of fear-mongering, presented without context or critique. Many people who aren’t able to research on their own have absolutely no idea there are informed voices with strongly opposing views. These views are almost never represented in the mainstream media. Rememer in 2001 when media voices said without any doubt “Saddam has chemical weapons”? Except he didn’t, as was reluctantly admitted after ~1 million Iraqi’s were killed in the gulf war. That demonstrates the scale of lies that can be successfully told by the media
– As usual, conspiracy theorists and nut-jobs abound – The mainstream media is also compromised by their association with big pharma and the government The enormous sums of money provided by the Bill Gates Foundation and pharmaceutical companies into scientific research give them enormous leverage. Imagine as a scientist the possibility of never having your work funded again for publicaly speaking out and you can get a sense of how much power these “grants” provide to the grantors
– Antivaxxers are against all vaccines are now also against the Covid 19 vaccines – The truth about Covid 19 is suppressed and labeled conspiracy theory in order to support the mainstream narrative People who are anti vaccinations (anti-vaxxers) are probably anti-covid vaccines. But to say all anti-Covid vaccine people are anti avxxers is like saying all Europeans are Brexiters. It’s a lie attempting to smear anti-jabbers by portraying them as nutters
– Antivaxxers have believed phony information disseminated by scurrilous, right wing charlatans – People who insist that the vaccines are the only way to fight Covd 19 have believed lies told to them by the MSM from big pharma and a corrupt medical establishment A slander which is a variation of the above arguments
– These people cost many lives and are the reason Covid still spreads and mutates – The vaccine narrative has cost many lives and ineffective vaccines are responsible for the continued spread and mutation of Covid 19 The argument that those that oppose vaccines are responsible for the continued spread of Covid is false on several counts: 1. the Covid jabs do not stop people getting or spreading Covid (the manufacturer’s data sheet is very explicit about this). Some governemnts are telling the vaccinated to keep wearing masks which proves this point!
– They are responsible for continued lock downs and the further decimation of the economy – The fallacious mainstream narrative is responsible for all lock downs and the decimation of the economy Almost every piece of information from the mainstream experts, from the initial modelling (incredibly inaccurate and overblown) to the recommended responses has been wrong. In any other scientific field, based on their record of predictions, the scientists would be discredited and ashamed. But the politicians have been covering for them, since their careers are also at risk. Look with critical eyes, and it’s been junk “science” and “advice” from beginning till now. Repeating the same actions and expecting different results is commonly understood as madnees
– They are selfish, evil and anti-science – The people who push the mainstream narrative are evil and anti-science; The people who believe this narrative are naive, dogmatic and anti-science It’s a nasty, rude and sometimes extreme shock to realise that those we’ve trusted in good faith for their expertise to keep us safe are in fact incompetent. But ask yourself – what is worse? To realise halfway up Erebus that your guides are poorly advised and equiped and turning back? Or to have been told that, but to follow them to your death because you can’t take responsibility for asking the hard questions before going any further?
– The Covid 19 response is all about trying to get us back to normal as quickly as possible – The Covid 19 response is all about money, power and control
– All people are at risk for Covid and should take the same precautions if for no other reason than out of solidarity – Old people and those with co-morbidities like diabetes are at greater risk for Covid and should take greater precautions and be afforded extra protections Covid primarily affects the elderly. To acknowledge that is not to say we shoukd abondon them to them to death. Its the opposite! Instead if all this idiotic protection around people at little risk, lets spend the time and money protecting those at real risk. In NZ and several other countries there’s been an uttlerly stupid idea that we can eliminate Covid – mabe we can, but the cost to all NZ citizens are astronomical – it is one if the more ridiculous ideas in modern times, and countries such as Singapore who previously emraced it are now abandoning it
– Long Covid is real and the best protection is to get vaccinated which diminishes Covid symptoms – Long Covid is real and is best prevented by prophylactic, outpatient or in hospital treatment with recommended drug protocols
NZDSOS come at swinging (G_d bless ’em): https://nzdsos.com/2021/07/22/deaf-to-the-deaths/
@ Dr D
Despite my respect for your posts – seriously, WTF?!
China attacked the US (via Detrick) who then attacked China.. Seriously.. What.The Fuck?
Ron Unz will spent 5000 words explaining his logic – yes, Covid in Iran immediately after Covid hit the news, and killing several of Iran’s legislature is a good solid argument, well made.
WTF is a couple paragraphs suggesting the US did that in response to a first attack? Unless I missed something.. the evidence was so brief..
It’s a trainwreck. There’s a vast amount of bullshit. Geo-politics and self-interest continue as usual, driving humanity towards the precipice. Yep – same ol’ same ol’
Interesting article on the conspicuous failure of the “Zero Covid” strategy across a variety of countries: https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/zero-covid-catastrophe-participating-nations-see-new-records-across-board
It was always transparently magical thinking, which makes it so extraordinary the majority here in NZ seem unable to see through it.
PS: that said, a new group of GP’s has sprung up here to fill the gap of CovidPlanB who appear to have passed the cudgel on. They appear to have taken the gloves off very early and I’m enjoying their output: https://nzdsos.com/posts/
@Ilargi Australia is done. Pull the plug and let it pour down the drain. The only things people there think are “wrong” in their isolation campaign are in not building quarantine accomodation, and in not ordering vaccines fast enough. Blind as bats.
You nailed it. The batshit insane thing about Australia and NZ is that the media output is as decoupled from the rest of the world as our borders. The border isolation plus media echo-chamber in these parts means the fear has been stoked exponentially. Whereas in Europe and the US there are counterfactuals provided by bordering countries or states, down here it’s a mono-factual. The majority truly believe we’ve dodged a plague of biblical proportions due to the wisdom and efficacy of the politicians.
It is the best example I’ve ever seen of why plurality of opinion is perhaps the most essential defence against tyranny.
“A high-functioning psychopath would box Fauci into himself with ease. Putin, for example, would have him squirming on the ropes in ten questions”
I agree that a high functioning psychopath would roundly trounce Fauci. I don;t understand why you consider Putin to be one. Every transcript I’ve read of Putins, or (subtitled) video clip I’ve witched, Putin appears far too savvy as to the genuine emotion behind the questions he faces to be purely responding intellectually.
apropos the Chiva vs Us thing, Fred Reed is very on point today: https://www.unz.com/freed/watching-china-anatomy-of-a-suicide/
I dunno if it’s true, but his line “Reading of Chinese efforts, one gets a sense of motion, agility, vitality remarkable in a nation that in 1976, when Mao died, was the poorest nation on earth.” is stunning
Several thanks today:
Ilargi – great compilation of posts – thanks you
the commentariat – some wonderful discussion on all levels
News from NZ – the NZ govt has just approved the J & J vaccine as a second to Pfizer. Good to know there’s a non-mRNA option available, though I have as little faith in J & J. Maybe least-worst of the two for now.
Having backed the (idiotic) “isolate and vaccinate” strategy, the NZ govt is waaaay late in receiving enough vaccine (I consider this a blessing..). Rather than question their strategy (and to deal with the mRNA-hesitant) the new approval has been announced with zero socialisation or debate.
Stadler and Waldorf were true intellectuals by comparison…
Re the NZ, Australia, Canada thread earlier.. curious that anti “hate speech” legislation seems be arising at least in Canada and NZ presently (I assume Australia will either follow, or won’t need to because the judiciary simply don;t enforce the law:
In all cases, driven (and possibly written) by the colonising power…
@Bill7 “Who the f*ck else should do the deciding?”
Indeed – you nailed it succinctly.
One of the gobsmacking things to me has been the way vast numbers of health practitioners appear incapable of recalling their own hypocratic oath – first do no harm.
With that oath in mind, and knowing the speed and lack of clinical trials underpinning the vaccines, how can any health practitioner possibly offer them in anything but the most guarded and caveated terms?
Not that they couldn’t/shouldn’t offer vaccines as a medically-approved treatment (to withhold access by patients to them would be just as unethical), but with full evidence (pros and cons), with the patient making an informed, unpressured decision.
Of course the vaccine uptake in France shows what the patient response is to that….
Thanks for the comments and responses today.
I was unnaturally cranky this morning when I wrote, so I was worried I’d taking the proverbial shit in the communal living room that I’d live to regret..
I don’t know if it was related (because standard temporal physics would be undermined), but this afternoon Wellington NZ went into “Level 2” because an Australian travelled through the city, then tested positive once they returned home.. Jesus wept…
Now they’re trying to trace contacts/locations.. my organisation are working from home till Monday.. and it’s my 8yo daughter’s birthday on Friday.. at this stage her birthday plans are still on track (ie less than 100 people gathering.. I assume they can stay 2m+ apart at laser strike..)
It hurts. It’s deeply demotivating, and depressing. I had a rant this afternoon at a coworker who was deeply proud to have got some of the first vaccines in Auckland, together with his wife. Nothing too bad, but how do collegial relationships persevere when they say “I got one of the first vaccines” and I reply “I’m sorry to hear that”.
And yes I can pull my head in and BS or say nothing, but that’s less and less tenable over time..
The tension it’s a building, and something’s gonna happen even if we don;t know what.
And if i can paraphrase my earlier comment today – I for one am glad that Taibbi has taken to the pen, regardless of how late it was. He’s built a platform for himself from first principles. He’s not protected by a corporate legal team with wodges of cash and inside connections. He’s not made Covid a theme of his columns. But when he brings he credibility to the contrary party.. I want to welcome it. Late, no problem.. hopefully he’s one of us now..
This is difficult to phrase without sounding disrespectful for all the value you provide at TAE, but I’m not convinced that you – of all people – get to question why Taibbi et al were slow to the party.
A year ago, TAE was focussed pretty much exclusively on Worldometer stats, Taleb’s “maximum cautionary principle”, the necessity of lockdowns, and the value of vaccines.
A few of the crankiest contrarians amongst the commentariat were adamant that on first principles every MSM screed we were being saturated with was pure idiocy, or at the very least questionable but we were very much in the minority.
Credit to you – with the accumulation of evidence over time, you changed your mind.. and sooner than the Taibbi’s of the world have done. But it seems to me the TAE commentariat changed your thinking rather than vv, which is presumably the same process that has happened with Taibbi. In which case labelling his slow uptake as “cute” feels a bit off to me.
It puts me in mind of Upton Sinclair: “It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.”
I was following up on what happened to the NZ CovidPlanB team who were very vocal in the early days of Covid. Since about Q1 this year they’ve wound down their voice, most likely I suspect from exhaustion.
But they linked to this site of GPs, dentists etc in NZ raising their voices: https://nzdsos.com
They’ve published their exchange of letters with the Medical Council in NZ (who are demanding GPs get vaccinated) and Medsafe who license medicines here. The authorities make my skin crawl with their blind obeiscance to bid pharma “authoritay”: https://nzdsos.com/letters/
It illustrates Hopkin’s point perfectly – this is not a rational debate.
I liked those quotes earlier. Followed the Charles Murray link you posted, hoping it was from there, but no.
Would you post a link to the source?
Amongst several sites, I read xymphora most days.. that definitely precludes me from judging your source.. 😉
To mitigate and ameliorate the human condition was good, he said. To lose it altogether was a catastrophe because we can only know God as creatures – i.e. created or given beings – not as gods who have taken charge of our own destiny.
A perfect, succinct statement of how and why personal ego needs to be kept in check.
@my parents said know – you beat me to posting that same link. It’s absolutely perfectly in illustrating that TPTB don’t remotely believe the BS they solemnly excrete upon us plebs. Will they all be quarantining on returning to their own countries after their unmasked sojourn..? Like hell they will!
Eric Clapton brings up some of these points, I was happy to see. Always liked him.
Whereas I was always pissy that Stevie Ray Vaughan died instead of Clapton when Clapton offered his seat to Vaughan and the helicopter crashed. I always thought Vaughan was the better musician.
But I shall gracefully retract and reconsider.. perhaps Clapton had an extra role to play in the human drama..
Here’s the link to the full vid that I posted a section of in the last post:
Some hyperbole, but overall a very interesting watch.
Someone (statistically, probably Germ.. 😉 may have linked to this segment previously, but it’s a first for me and I found it compelling (it’s only 7 mins long): https://youtu.be/DKcSNrGf4dE
His statement that biological organisms are – per se – not patentable fits with my (limited) understanding of IP law (and I’m happy to be enlightened by anyone more knowledgable in the area), but in principle:
– if natural organisisms are unpatentable AND
– the CDC did indeed receive a patent on the Coronovirus genome
..that’s potentially the smoking gun right there.
The URL at the end of the video still works, but the link from there to the full doco is dead (links to “chapters” of it seem to work though. If anyone has a link to a copy of the full video I’d be very grateful to see it.
And lastly a couple of good links from Lockdownsceptics.org.uk a couple of days back:
The Covid genome has a sequence at the all-imprtant furin cleavage site which does not occur in nature, and is commonly inserted as a genetic marker. Which seems to imply an engineered virus, but one engineered for research rather than biowarfare purposes (why advertise synthetic origin in a bioweapon when alternate sequences would work as effectively without advertising synthetic origin?)
Interesting psychology suggestion on why the “covid-together” tribe’s is inpenetrable to logic, stats or argument.
From an article in a leading NZ daily today: https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/125386042/nzs-covidfree-status-relies-on-trust-in-the-vaccine.
“The Pfizer vaccine, being used in New Zealand, has already been administered to millions around the world with no more serious side effects than the flu vaccine. It has been tracked and monitored in more detail than any vaccine in history.”
I wish I had the time and money to public challenge idiocy like that. The VAERS DB linked by Ilargi a few days back shows the annual flu vaccine death rate in the US to average around 200/year, but over 4000 deaths have been registered from Covid vaccinations already this year. Europe is similar.
Pfizer has been gifted relative headline anonymity because the other mRNA vaccines have had worse rates than Pfizer’s, but the death rate from the Pfizer vaccine certainly exceeds historical flu vaccination rates.
As to why the insurance companies are not adjusting rates to reflect Covid risks, the insurance companies are expendable and so are their employees. The upper management of insurance companies have golden parachutes regardless of whether the company or its business model goes belly up, they are ‘made men’.
Nah, I’m not onboard with that. Historically, insurance companies have been very savvy at accurately modelling risks, perhaps because the ongoing existence of their entire business (and many of the longest running have been in business over a century) depends on them not getting it totally wrong.
I recall a thread on TAE in the early days of Covid discussing remarks from a senior actuary at one of the big insurance companies who immediately pooh-poohed the Imperial College model, as his company had invested many millions trying unsuccessfully to model pandemics, and had admitted failure.. pandemics being simply too complex to accurately model (or more likely, small changes to variables make a large difference to model outputs and therefore the model’s predictive value was small).
More likely in my mind – there’s no excess death from Covid, therefore there’s no need to alter premiums (much).
Wait some time until the outcomes of Covid vaccination make themselves statistically felt, and you can guarantee life insurance premiums will alter in the same way they did for smokers, heavy drinkers, etc.
The NZ govt is also running well behind vaccination schedule, ostensibly because of late delivery of vaccine shipments from abroad.
I’ve begun wondering to what extent doubt is emerging within the government PTB, and whether they’ve begin kicking for touch.. hoping to delay things until a plausible reason for changing strategy/direction emerges.
I was actually thinking of dual-Nobel laureate, for making speeches about peacification but your candidate is worthy also!
Apropos the uni-opinion world, and for them’s that’s interested in NZ politics (Doc R, I’m think of you), here’s a great article posted yesterday in one of NZ’s main dailies: https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/125352433/this-government-promised-to-be-open-and-transparent-but-it-is-an-artfullycrafted-mirage
She notes the vast chasm between what Jacinda Ardern promised would be the “most transparent administration ever” (echoes of another glib charismatic frontman..?) and what has actually transpired – a remarkably opaque government that has massively multiplied the number of PR roles within all branches.
Thanks for taking the time to respond to my question.
Your speculation may will be right (I find it quite plausible), but difficult to prove.
In working to sway mainstream opinion, I think it’s better to stick to what can be concretely proved, ie that Fauci et al lied, were two-faced about they said publicly and privately, and most importantly were directly funding GoF research whilst pretending an engineered origin of Covid was impossible to consider.
Lastly, with Tiananmen Square in the news lately, and cited by someone in the comments, a reminder that the story that has entered mainstream consciousness is a mythologised version: https://archives.cjr.org/behind_the_news/the_myth_of_tiananmen.php
I loved the Solzhenitsyn today.
Can someone pls help me understand why the Chinese doc applying for a vaccine patent in Feb 2020 is supposedly so terrible?
The lab was doing gain-of-function research. The stated purpose of GoF research is to be able to develop remedial treatments in advance of an actual pandemic. In the course of that research they very likely made advances that could potentially be monetised following the outbreak of Covid, regardless of whether the lab was the source of the precise virus that we now know as Covid.
Now I personally think GoF research is reckless and stupid, but I also don’t see how the patent application is evidence of any kind of smoking gun.
Despite the thousands of words penned before and since, our host’s pithy phrase remains the most accurately succinct:
” Fauci is a wanker and a rodent”
@ WES – great story, and pleased to know you better 🙂
My anecdote de jour (in keeping with TAE’s economics focus)… the NZ Reserve Bank today released it’s auditor’s public report on the significant data breach which happened to the bank around last XMas.
I was contracting to the bank on a related project at that time, and have been holding my breath as to what the public record would say. So it’s a huge relief that no shade has been cast in this general direction, and that – although anodyne – the report is targeted pretty fairly.
Although from personal and direct experience I knew the facts to be true, it’s weird how much external judgements can create doubt and uncertainty, and it’s a relief to be done with them.
Once again, I credit the TAE community (amongst others, but probably primarily) in helping maintain calibration of “real” and “unreal” in the face of public noise.
The raw death numbers in the VAERS graph you led with are brilliant.
But the cumulative count part of the graph makes no sense at all – it should jump rapidly in 2021, but it continues at the same rate as previous years.
A corrected version of the graph would be even more compelling.