Forum Replies Created
Boogaloo you suggest scenario B as benign with no health repercussions. If you believe this you have not been watching enough Jerry Springer.
I am no fan of the current system but the folks in my neck of the woods that are getting thrown out first are the small businesses.
Question: how long should the world shut down? Note places that shut down in Asia opened and are now shutting down again. My position is that shutting down the world for this virus is simply not feasible– people who survive the virus will die from despair.
I am not against sick people being isolated, but this mass quarantine causes as many social problems as the health problems it is supposed to solve.
This article highlights the flip side of the covid response.
On asymmetry: is the impact of locking up dysfunctional families, with all the violence and addiction, less than letting them out? Is forcing individuals who live alone, and may be susceptible to mental illness due to loneliness, less than letting them go out? Is the possibility of these extreme behavior control measures being taken advantage of by our elites less than letting people make adult responsible decisions? I have to say I am just not sure, but these are the costs on the other side. I guess we will all see.
On a happy note – people still step up and contribute – in Quebec, Canada, 7000 nurses have agreed to come out of retirement to help with covid. Wonderful.
Here’s another way to look at the issue of cause of death: there are many people out there who think that the financial markets are bring “killed” if you will by covid. Those of us who have been following finance for a few years know that the markets have been ‘dead men walking’ for quite some time. Yet, to the uninitiated this is not apparent. Many people are in fragile health — those with cancer on chemo or other immunosuppressant drugs will be vulnerable. If they die, will the cause be covid or the fact that they were on immunosuppressant drugs?
Zerosum: of course total number of deaths will increase. But all the other causes are still there. From my examples above, you may be interested to know that coroners in our region realized errors in their way of assigning cause of death — these folks are not infallible.
Is it the leading cause of death or is it present in those who died and is the death merely attributed to covid rather than the other condition present? Is the hysteria around this disease perhaps causing excess focus on this as the cause? cause of death attribution is not clear cut.
From personal experience:
Example 1: Relative with longstanding COPD dies at home (refused to go to hospital) after a night of extreme chest pain on right side. Looked very much like a heart attack. Question: is the cause of death COPD or heart attack?
Example 2: young person dies after apparently having grand mal epileptic seizure. However, it was determined that the reason for death was withdrawal after having missed several doses of anti-seizure meds (ie a side-effect of withdrawal of the meds was death by seizure). What is the cause of death?
Once we get through being concerned about death by covid, I guess we will all go back to ignoring death of the planet due to climate change.
WES – related to your point, I have heard of 2 stories of Canadian authors having female relatives accused of witchcraft. One is Marilyn Simonds (author of The Holding) and the other is Margaret Atwood, although Atwood says that her grandmother, who past on the story, sometimes denied the connection because it was shameful.
I wonder how long it will be until people are burned at the stake for objecting to switching the world off for this virus. It seems that the prevailing opinion is that no policy, no matter how draconian, has worse repercussions than conservative measures combined with letting nature take its course. Seems like hubris combined with incompetence and greed is what rules decision-making.
Yup absolutely Zerosum – well and beautifully said.
Good point Bosco – our leaders need to look like they are doing something.. Wrecking ball comes to mind.
I am really getting to a point where this covid-19 is looking like a majorly over-hyped event for most people. Here’s why:
Our health care systems were on life support before this happened in Canada, a relatively rich country. We had regular warnings of hospitals operating at levels in excess of capacity. Personal experience of seeing a family member through the ER experience for a serious event confirmed this for me (family member was with four other patients in an office that had been converted to a room for patients). My partner worked in a chronic care hospital up to 5 years ago and every friday there was a big musical beds exercise to make room for the weekend emergency patients that would overflow from the acute care institutions into the chronic care. The demographic bubble of boomers overwhelming the health care system has been recognised for a very long time – it is not news.
Another note on the health front: we are on the precipice of melt-down in health care due to antibiotic resistance, which currently kills many people. Once this comes full force, you can forget all of your fancy medical interventions because without effective antibiotics many procedures will be impossible (think surgeries). Big pharma is not interested – no money here, much more money in stuff llike statins — stuff people take every day for decades rather than something like antibiotics that you take for 10 days. A huge user of antibiotics is conventionally raised meat. I don’t hear any leaders either in the medical field or our political leadership calling for a stop to this type of animal husbandry and planning to transition to a raising animals in a way that does not involve these levels of antibiotics. The excuse given is that we can’t afford it. Okay then, just get ready for the day when you need antibiotics and they don’t work — that’s part of the cost of this decision.
We are experiencing a once in 100 year event – what organization plans the capacity for this? None, and it makes sense that they would not. Nature will take its course and the system will be pushed past its limit.
Poverty kills millions of people every single year – not just once in 100 years. There is not hue and cry to try to stop this, ensure more equality. On the contrary, there is foot-dragging and continued policies of impoverishing nations and undesirables within nations. First Nations people in Canada have been sickened by contaminated drinking water on reserves for decades, and the government is still “working on it”.
Climate change and eco-cide (which will likely bring us to our demise if humans survive covid-19) will kill gazillions of people. Crickets on this issue from our political leadership and citizens don’t want to make the necessary changes in their behavior because it is too inconvenient. Funny anecdote: the political leaders of my small community refused to declare a climate emergency because they didn’t want to scare the kids. Funny how now they aren’t concerned about scaring the kids re covid-19.
And Kudos to TAE for emphasizing the importance of everyone getting out of debt.
D. Rich fantastic link to Michael Hudson. I had been wondering if all this money printing would lead to hyperinflation, but it seems that, no, as per TAE long-time position, TPTB have cooked a plan to achieve debt deflation at the expense of the non-wealthy (small business, wage earners).
Interesting notes, but the challenge again is that these are highly processed and highly concentrated extracts of specific compounds of plants. Aside from not being something your average person could prepare for him or herself, the other challenge is that, when specific compounds are removed from the plant matrix, the synergies are lost among all of the compounds within the plant, narrowing the effective range of anti-disease activity (excuse my terminology I am a lay person). You are effectively repeating the approach of big pharma- creating medicinal one-trick ponies. These create an excellent, focused workout regimen for pathogens which can now focus their efforts on surmounting a much simpler for. Eventually the effectiveness of this extract is destroyed, along with the effectiveness of the whole plant as a medicinal. This has already happened to several plant medicines used in organic agriculture.
I googled to see results for key herbal anti-microbials for covid-19 and all I came up with is results under myth-busters. It is great that pharmaceuticals are being found that are effective. However, if we are in for collapse in the longer term, it is really unfortunate that more research focus is not being directed to more readily-available plant-based medicine (ie garlic, ginger, astragalus, echinacea etc there are many many plants of interest). In a true collapse scenario, many people will not have access to pharmaceuticals and will not have the knowledge of how to use these readily-available medicines growing around them.
Link in which two expert epidemiologists take opposing positions on government response to the virus.
Ilargi to answer your question you have collected some great authoritative articles on the nature of thd virus and how different countries are experiencing it and responding to it. I am less interested in the numbers of cases – if we are all going to get it and the numbers are so impacted by testing rates, these two things make the numbers less interesting. Eventually we hit 100 percent, some people get it twice, some people get it and are never tested etc.
I tried to buy a freezer today at Home Depot. The sales clerk told me that the whole chain sold out of freezers a week ago and new orders are not a given but would not come in until May.
WES: That should help, maybeeee? 😊
Yes raw unpasteurized sauerkraut and kimchi are great for your intestinal flora which represent about 70 percent of your body’s immune system capacity. Excellent idea to eat some to boost your immune system.
The suggestion that mass quarantines of everyone (sick or not) is ludicrous – never going to be feasible. Remember the Japanese story for starters? They closed the schools but then some parents of kids worked at the hospital and, because they were at home looking after their kids, they did not show up for work. You can expect the same thing to happen with the military and police you will need to enforce the quarantines – they all have families that they will put before their families.
I would add: how many people in all age groups are taking pharmaceuticals that compromise their immune system? Many people use anti-inflammatory for all kinds of things from sports injuries to headaches.
It makes perfect sense that there are huge numbers of young people walking around spreading the disease but not feeling particularly sick. As Jon Barron said, if you are not immune compromised (and young people without underlying health issues – and haven’t had cancer treatment which I would add damages the immune system of people of all ages) you will experience very little effect when you get the coronavirus. The main related relevant point is that, as Merkel and others have said, pretty much everyone is going to get this virus, so the working assumption for all of us should be that we will get the virus, not a happy prospect but realistic. Social distancing is key for delaying catching this thing.
However, knowing that sooner or later we will all get it, we should think about how to minimize its impact, and that would involve strengthening the immune system and treatments to reduce pathogen load on your body so it does not have to work so hard. For the moment, alternative health and herbal medicine areas will have the best information on things you can do yourself.
Here is Jon Barron’s latest note on on the corona virus. Highlights:
– Government response suggests that this is a short-term problem, but all evidence suggests that the virus will be around for a long time.
– Since it will be around for a long time, odds are everyone will get it and rather than trying to avoid getting it we would more usefully focus on optimising our health to survive it (eg reduce viral load in our bodies, support the immune system)
– Rates of infection and mortality are very much subject to testing rates, so don’t get too hung up on them.
– If you are not elderly and don’t have an underlying health issue, you will most likely not experience this as anything different than the flu.
– If you quarantine yourself when you do not have the virus, you will be at just as much risk (even more) of getting the virus, because you had no chance to develop some immunity.
– Quarantining sick people will absolutely stop the spread of the virus from those people (and reduce long-term stress on health care systems), but will not stop the spread of the virus by others.
– Long-term mass quarantines of everyone are simply not sustainable. You would have to bring the entire economy to a halt, and the moment you stop the quarantine, the disease cycle will start again.
I agree zerosum. Thank you TAE for your fantastic articles and insights.
At this point it looks like, the way things play out everywhere, health care systems quickly become completely overwhelmed, and people are left to fend for themselves. What if politicians just said this – we bungled it and our health care, as it has been designed, does not have the capacity to deal with this – can’t redesign the system now, too late for that, you are on your own? No politician would ever be this honest, so we will go thru the charade of pretending to be able to help everyone, full speed ahead towards the brick wall, and turn away when the wheels fall off. In Canada our federal government just announced a whole billion dollars to help with health care costs!!!!!
Unless you are for anarchy, we need leaders in our society (yes even leaders in hospitals and leaders for doctors to Dr.D Rich). We find ourselves with incredibly corrupt and plain poor leaders, the cadre of which helped put us in the financial mess we find ourselves facing. All that said I see also the benefits of having coordination of activities which involves leadership – roads and hospitals don’t get built without someone directing things. Poor quality leadership does not negate the need for leadership.
Dr. D you make me laugh and cry all at once.
The risk response I sometimes think of is climate change and plastic pollution, loss of species. All of these things have the potential to wipe out many humans along with other life forms. Yet that does not lead to the tough measures happening for this virus. International travel is not being cancelled, people are not discouraged by politicians from going on cruises (in Canada this is happening to avoid getting the virus though). Draconian anti-pollution measures are not happening, no one is stopping production of plastic immediately (on the contrary we are worried about ensuring our supply of stuff from China). I think that there should be a greater societal response to these and other similarly significant risks. The virus is showing us that it can be done.
Hi V Arnold
I just came across this coronavirus protocol that uses intravenous Vitamin C with hydrocortisone and thiamine. Not something you could administer yourself but interesting to know.
Vitamin C – an update
Here’s a link to a corona-virus specific herbal remedy that can be purchased. Link was provided by another TAE reader.
I just read on Mercola website that optimizing vitamin and mineral levels (ie re mention of vitamin D, plus liposomal vitamin C, zinc, beta glucan) helps the body fight flu. Note that this is different from/in addition to using pathogen destroyers (ie garlic) which will reduce the work required of the body to fight the disease.
This is my alt health guru’s take on corona virus. https://www.jonbarron.org/colds-flus-infectious-diseases/coronavirus/. A very good read imo.
Dr. D I see your point -if the numbers are correct the response does seem excessive. It just doesn’t make sense.
Interesting to hear price rise on garlic and ginger from China (ginger is also a beneficial herb in fire cider). Why does almost no one outside the herb community know about these things? Here is the theory: because you cannot patent garlic or ginger there is no money in telling people to try using it, nor is there any significant interest in funding research into it.
Reading the transcript evidence at Assange’s trial erases the line between conspiracy theories and the supposed real world.
Sorry kill ‘microbes’ not ‘microbrews’!!!
Royal Jelly from what I have read is not known for antipathogen activity but is known for brain-related support (dementia). Yes high doses of vitamin C are sometimes used but this vitamin is not on the short list. Also there is an important difference between synthetic vitamins and food source vitamins – food sources are much more bioavailable and expensive.
Not sure what you mean when you say our bodies are vitamin factories and then you say you rely on a healthy diet? We absolutely need quality food in general – at the foundation of health and good immune system is nutrient dense uncontaminated food. The list of anti-pathogens and immune support herbs are in addition to a good diet, specifically to kill microbrews and build up the immune system.
Antivirals: garlic, structured silver (colloidal also but not as good), horseradish, oil of oregano, apple cider vinegar, olive leaf
Use them altogether for synergistic effect.
Immune system support: echinacea seed and root, liquid ionic zinc, astragalus root, cordyceps mushroom.
Baseline Nutritionals sells combination herbal tinctures (one antimicrobial, the other for immune support) containing all these ingredients and more. I have no affiliation with the company but have used his products and found them to be extremely effective.
I hear ya Dave Note. It is incredible how in just a couple generations an incredible amount of knowledge and capacity is gone.
This will not serve anyone well given a hugely fragile economic system in which everyone is just a tiny cog and no one knows how to build things from scratch, nor do we have the means equipment wise. Sad for all that we got sold this stupid financial bill of goods that made us all so vulnerable.
Slippery slope to say we are not responsible for what was done previously. Borders for countries, constitutions were built in some cases 100s of years ago. Can we just ignore all that? Usually there is some selectivity in what elements of the past should be attended to and those we are supposed to ignore. When in Canada there is talk of compensating indigenous people for land that was stolen from them, this is typically the moment when people talk about not being able to right the wrongs of the past.
Modern pharmaceuticals have been as corrupted by greed as every other aspect of our lives. The largest share of the money goes to the drugs that make the most money. Antibiotics are not on the list
In Canada most of drug testing is done by pharma companies. Results are reviewed by government, on a timeline that includes penalties for the government should the reviews take too long. Recently rules have been put in place whereby all drug trials have to be registered. Previously pharma companies could run 10 trials, have 9 fail, and only the one successful one would see the light of day.